Dems gonna Dem

If that's meant to be the DNC, okay.

If that's meant to be people who made an argument for coalition politics and not straight up forfeiting an election to the worst presidential candidate anyone could find lying around to stuff into a diaper and a suit and put behind a podium.. that's not really the same thing.

Gavin Newsom is not, at the moment, running for president. He's not sitting opposite some extreme right-winger serving as a disappointing but necessary defensive line between us and things getting much worse. He's an asshole who happens to be a Democrat and is the current governor of a state where he's actively making things worse. He, like Harris, would clearly be leaning toward the right to try to win center votes.

The reasonable strategic move to make for anyone who wants the government in the US to shift to the left is to make it clear that while his humiliating Trump is useful, he is not a viable candidate. Supporting him now would be backing a lame horse that's literally still in the stable during a time where we should be finding the healthiest, fastest horse we possibly can. That is not the same as if he were in an election right now and were the only way to prevent a Trump from getting into office.

I'm trans. I hope Newsom falls off a cliff. But if he had been running against Trump instead of Harris I would have held my nose and checked the box, because strategy isn't about throwing a fit until you get the scenario you want, it's about doing what you can with the hand you've got.

Right now what we can do is toss his ass away and draw another card from the deck before we end up being forced to play him.

I'm trans. I hope Newsom falls off a cliff. But if he had been running against Trump instead of Harris I would have held my nose and checked the box, because strategy isn't about throwing a fit until you get the scenario you want, it's about doing what you can with the hand you've got.
I'm trans too, fwiw. I've reached a slightly different conclusion, though I respect yours:
I am going to pre-commit not to vote for Newsom. I'm going to encourage as many people as I can to pre-commit. If Progressives pledge not to vote for him, and the DNC knows they're serious, Newsom will lose the primary. He'll lose because it will be apparent to DNC superdelegates that Progressives won't show up for him, and that without the Progressive vote Newsom will not win the election.
Basically, it's like nuclear war: if you're nuked, you shouldn't retaliate, because nuking back would wipe out all of humanity, instead of half. But your enemy must know that you've pre-committed to retaliate, otherwise they will nuke you.
It's a stupid game equilibrium but inevitable, IMO.
because strategy isn’t about throwing a fit until you get the scenario you want, it’s about doing what you can with the hand you’ve got.
This is an important thing to point out. I am some what reminded of the meme where the democrats are represented as a stopper that keeps the a wheel from moving back left. I get their complaint and it is valid, but abstaining from elections is doing a similar function. It is also rather privileged as they are not feeling the pressure for why harm minimization is important.
On a somewhat historical approach revolutionaries are oppressed and kept down, and that does mean that those in power have implicitly give up all bargaining power by refusing dialog. I feel that in a sense we have done similar to ourselves electorally. We won’t participate and organize there, so no one will ever take us seriously and our issues are never heard. Voting lesser evil is not a long term solution, but it is lower effort than organizing a new third party. Even still it is less effort than picking up a rifle and holding down a trench. I get that in the discourse it feels like the fastest way (unfounded assumption that war is ever fast)and that sentiments for a total revolution is always around the corner. Given that we won’t have any third party organization now I don’t see how it will form and put our ideas out in more chaos. Presumably the most informed on the subject matters and theory are also the most bought in and going to be leaders, who cannot be bothered to commit an evening to the lowest effort civic engagement.
I think we have some good leaders in AOC and Mamdami to start some foundations, but I fear apathy might mean no shows and they genuinely lose their seats or have to make even more compromises than they otherwise have to. I hope we can all go to primaries and vote for progressive candidates (even encourage them to go third party if they have to). Also remember that we have more than just presidential elections happening on the same ballot.
There we go, that's the most complete and correct answer. High five internet friend.

I’d say this is far more accurate:

“Wow, Trump really is a patriarchally traitorous transphobic, cowardly piece of shit that either locks innocent people up in concentration camps or illegally deports them because of his unrestrained racism that has done evening he promised he would do in Project 2025.”

“We hate Trump! Why is he so evil? Why is this happening!”

“Does the mean you’ll vote blue if that who stands against a return of the same in 2028?”

“Hahahahahahahaha! No.”

Keep trying the same losing strategy, I'm sure it will work next time. But just barely, like when we elected a sundowning neocon disguised as a liberal without dementia.
- Prop up someone better that stands a chance instead of untested generic nobodies that no one has ever heard of and maybe you’ll be taken seriously.
  Until then, keep doing jack shit and hope that change comes as a result. It’s working so well so far.

We haven't even entered midterm season yet and we're arguing about Newsom's viability. The focus should be on midterms. We still have 2 years for a new star to shine, for a progressive to break through, for the DNC to maybe get a clue.

I'd rather hear discussions about who is best to face off against Collins, how can we take back some of the house seats where the margins are thinnest, where could we break in.

There will never be a perfect candidate for any office. You will always have issues you don't align on. If you think you align on everything, you're probably not looking closely enough. Vote for freedom, join the conversation and advocate for change. I have seen many politicians change their beliefs over the years, often their positions are uninformed and giving them the right information can help and assuming they know the facts helps no one.

We are all flawed. We have all made mistakes. We are all capable of change. Politicians are no less suited to making mistakes than we are.

There are candidates I align with pretty much 99.99999)% with (and that's only because I probably haven't found the 1 thing I disagree with). I vote for those people and then get yelled at for doing so. Why? Cause they're third party. Claudia de la Cruz last year was my dream candidate. I'd bulldoze mountains to get her in the White House. However, she ran for the PSL party and not the DNC so I constantly got called a Trump supporter for supporting her.
- I say this with no disrespect intended. With the electoral and first past the post system, voting 3rd party at the national level is like spitting into the ocean. No one will notice, and maybe that vote could have made a difference elsewhere. It sucks but until we eliminate the electoral and have RCV or STAR voting, we cannot support 3rd party candidates.
  All that being said, I do think that it is worth voting 3rd party for lower office or if your vote really wouldn't affect the outcome.
I haven't seen a single person whining about Newsom who's also proposed a progressive alternative who could run in the primary.
This is when we're supposed to bring in leftist candidates. Instead, they'll do nothing, and then whine about the inevitable results.
- who’s also proposed a progressive alternative who could run in the primary.
  The onus is on potential progressive or leftist presidential candidates to show up - it's their decision. It takes a tremendous amount of courage and boldness to enter public consciousness and face scrutiny in every direction.

Just so people know Gavin newsom made a comment about trans children in sports.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/gavin-newsom-rages-about-trans-kids-in-sports-how-democrats-hate-his-stance/ar-AA1INrLO

And political influential dems have had issues with mamdani for issues ranging from tax policies (tax rich as too ambitious) to lack of stance regarding Israel

https://www.newsweek.com/full-list-new-york-democrats-not-endorsing-zohran-mamdani-2092616

This is the info that’s missing.

Just tired of people dropping headline bombs with no story and just expecting others to follow suit on a dime . All this talk about echo chambers but we can’t possibly take the time to educate people.

Yeah… this TOTALY makes him the same as Trump. Definitely worth not regaining our freedoms and democracy over.
(obligatory /s)
- I don’t understand your post here.
Yeah… this TOTALY makes him the same as Trump. Definitely worth not regaining our freedoms and democracy over.
(obligatory /s)

(hint: there’s no such thing, **********)
Yeah… this is a bannable offense by the standards of most Lemmy instances.

I've seen what feels like a hundred posts complaining about people saying we need to support Gavin Newsome no matter what but I have yet to see someone saying we need to support Gavin Newsome no matter what.

It's literally in this thread.
I have absolutely seen it.
- There's a big difference between:
  "We need to support Gavin Newsom no matter what."
  And
  "You don't need to comment on every post about Newsom trolling Trump by talking shit about him. You can support a thing he's doing without supporting him."
- As have I, and they are sanctimonous, condescending, and tiresome in the extreme.
- Support him for what?
I don't see it much on here, but they're everywhere on Bluesky. You can search Newsom's name and the first result will probably be someone talking shit about him with tons of comments and quote posts telling them they're just trying to get Trump to win a third term.
- Then these memes should be posted on Bluesky not here where "centrists" are unwanted.
I personally had many people pile on me when I criticized him during the peak of his meming on Trump. But it does feel like the tide has turned against him a bit now.
- They love the pointless, performative shit.
  Look at what Newsom is actually doing: presiding over a state where, for the vast majority of his constituents, it's becoming unaffordable to live in while at the same time he is actively criminalizing homelessness.
Yeah, those posts were in response to people being completely shitty about it.
Do you need me to link to some previous discussions where there are accusations of someone being an accelerationist who prefers Trump because they criticized Newsom? Because that was just yesterday. That’s not even touching the people who flat out say ‘I am absolutely willing to sacrifice trans rights because everyone else is more important’.
- Don't trans people already have the same rights as other people? The things happening to them are prejudice.
- The funny thing about trans people is that they also care about having an administration full of insane clowns enabling climate catastrophe, the next pandemic, and the Gaza genocide.
Feels kind of manufactured, honestly. I'm also trying to find evidence that he's a transphobic piece of shit, but it seems like he's pretty good on trans rights.
I think this post is that "sowing division" thing we've heard so much about.
- https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/why-transgender-people-are-not-feeling
- He went on ~~Joe Rogan's~~ Charlie Kirk's show and said he doesn't think trans women should be in sports. Solidarity only goes one way for him.
  Edit: the deleted comment under this by Madzielle is the work of a coward. Post for real and stand by your (shitty) opinion. Don't delete it immediately just so it hits my inbox and you suffer no community consequences from it.
Exactly. I support Newsom because he fights and would even support even Republicans. We need everyone.
Most Democrats don't do anything beyond nice speeches and many don't even bother with that.
- Does he fight? What's he actually done beyond steal Trump's vibes?
This is the time for someone else to step up and be noticed by the crowd.

Even if Newsome skews transphobic he will be infinitely better than any Republican on the issue. We can beat up Newsome all we want now but if he "wins" the nominee acting like he's the devil incarnate is a really dumb position to take. I would prefer a ton of other people over him but he won't be pushing insane policies like the right is.

Even if Newsome skews transphobic he will be infinitely better than any Republican on the issue.
That's what they said about Labor in the UK. Then the UK liberals became even more transphobic than the conservatives.
- The UK has a Liberal Democrat Party and a Labour Party as well as the Conservative Party and now Reform (formerly UKIP, Farage is trying to be the smarter, more British Trump).
  It's confusing when you call Labour Liberals, because Labour is strongly in support of free universal healthcare and workers' rights, introduced and regularly raised the minimum wage and is generally pro union. They're considerably to the left of the American Democrats.
  Having said all that, three Prime Minister, Keir Starmer seems to be the most Biden-like Prime Minister we've had.
But he isn't running yet and you still have a chance of not having an asshole like him in eventual primaries.
Already pretending that he's the best choice now is borderline stupid.

ITT: Yet more righteous liberals extolling the virtues of not voting for the only party that can actually stand against the Fourth Reich, literally at all.

Meanwhile, doing absolutely nothing to propose more progressive alternatives.
- I'm sure Hitler will totally understand your concerns.
You should be sure to tell Newsom’s office he’s alienating voters with his transphobia, because for some people it’s a deal breaker. Telling people to shut up about it isn’t going to work and is also fucked.
- I'll be sure to kowtow to the voters who are above voting for the Democratic choice as they hand their votes to the fascists who want to kill them, reminding myself that the people who would have defended their lives just didn't... what, make enough medical centers? WTF exactly is good enough to get you to vote against Hitler, when THE CHOICE IS HITLER OR NOT HITLER
- Yes. Because Trump's transphobia pales in comparison to big bad evil Newsom? Are you for real?
  This reminds me of when so many left-leaning people were tricked into not voting for Harris because things are terrible in the middle east. Yes, Biden/Harris wasn't doing much to stop the murder in Gaza. And yes, they weren't doing anything to stop aid or weapons sales to Israel.
  But, did they think Trump would do better? Did anybody think Trump gives a damn about some poor brown muslims? Of course not! Everyone should have known that Trump would gleefully help to burn Gaza to the ground to make room for a new casino resort and a 200 foot golden statue of himself. At lease with Harris, she'd be under a lot of pressure to do SOMETHING to help the Palestinians. But, do you think Trump is going to be swayed by protests? Get real.
  So what was the plan? What was the point of hoping that Harris would lose? Was it to teach the Dems a "lesson" so that in 4 years they would get back into office and actually help Gaza?
  WTF?!? There are two GIGANTIC flaws with this "plan".
  Project 2025 made it clear that if Trump won, the US would never see a free and fair election ever again. So even if the "lesson" was learned, it wouldn't matter.
  Even if the Dems DID somehow win in 2028, what would they be able to do after 4 YEARS of genocide? Gaza (and possibly the West Bank) would be completely destroyed by then.
  Great friggin plan, genius!!
  The problem is not with Dems. It's with organizations like AIPAC, who will spend millions of dollars to unseat any Democrat who dares to suggests that we should cut off Israel. (just look what happened to Cori Bush in Missouri's 1st district). US politicians are scared shitless of these groups, and of being called anti-semites for disallowing Israel.
  So, to get back to the original point ... If it does come down to Newsom and Trump/Vance in 2028, I will be sad. But I will vote Newsom, because at least I know he isn't going to declare that all trans people are sex criminals, round them up, and send them to "re-education" camps for "treatment". Or, something even worse.
  That is what these fascist will do if they have the power do it. And they are doing everything they can to wear down our constitutional rights in order to do it.
  So, don't be stupid. Don't vote (or non-vote) for the worst possible outcome. Because you are going to absolutely destroy people's lives. Including your own.
- It sounds like the backlash is at least working and making its way to him. The California capital started flying the trans flag a few days ago.
  Reddit Link (Yuck Reddit though)
- they didn't say to shut up about it though, they specifically addressed non-voting.
Force people to vote against their rights, why dont you?
This exactly. It's almost like they want Trump to remain in office, or someone just like him. I'm so, so so tired of that attitude.

It's simple.

Vote for the Democratic nominee against the GOP in the general election.

If you live somewhere the Dems tend to win elections, vote in the Democratic primaries to change the party little by little.

If you live somewhere the GOP tends to win, vote in the GOP primaries to try and at least get rid of the MAGA Republicans and THEN vote for the Democratic candidate in the general election.

Gradual incrementalism is precisely what got us into this mess, so it isn’t that simple. So long as the Dems are controlled by their donors, they will never willingly let an actual leftist in. See Mamdani. Ratchet effect then ensures both parties grow ever rightward.
We need meaningful leftist opposition in power if the US is going to survive. I think transforming the DNC into that is a much more difficult task than anyone cares to admit, and the delusion that we can do it without forming a new party entirely is just bringing us closer to inevitable collapse once the capital owners have stolen everything from us.
- Libs/Blue MAGA are gonna hate you for speaking the truth.
- The single most successful third party presidential candidate since 1900 was Teddy Roosevelt, who had already been president twice, when he ran under the Bull Moose Party ticket. He got 29% of the popular vote, spilt the Republican vote, and handed the presidency to Democrat Woodrow Wilson.
  The second most successful third party presidential candidate since 1900 was Ross Perot in 1992. He got 18.6% of the popular vote, drew conservative voters away from George H. W. Bush, and handed the presidency to Bill Clinton.
  Third party candidates by all means should run for local and down-ballot offices, but above a certain level, if you haven't got a realistic plan for how to win beyond wishful thinking, then the responsible move is to run as hard as you can in the primary, try to drag the primary electorate in the direction you want it to move, and endorse the major party candidate that most closely aligns with your views. If you aren't even hitting twenty percent in the polls leading up to the general, then you're acting as a spoiler and helping your most-hated opponent win.
- You explained this well. You should copy and paste it into every post about Dems vs lefts vs liberals.
- Please, inform us plebs on how not voting for the Democratic nominee will help improve things.
- Incrementalism is what sorta helps to get us out as well. By that I mean changing the voting systems like New York City did which helps make it easier to get more leftist candidates in office.
  Changing the DNC requires the majority of new voters to continue being left/progressive on issues and could take another decade.
  Changing the voting system in our cities and states is the best chance to pull politics left and to actually allow third parties to take root. The last thing we want really is for the spoiler effect to happen, where our preferred candidate(s) and safe candidate lose to the least preferred candidate.
Aren't you locked in to the party you're registered with, specifically to avoid this scenario?
- They can’t actually stop you from registering with the other party. It’s not a crime to vote in their primaries and then vote for the other party in the general.
- in most states, you have to register with one party or the other for primaries, so you can only vote in one primary. But in the general election, you aren't required to cast a ballot for the party for which you're registered.
- Depends on where you live. Here in Missouri, you just tell them which primary ballot you want when you go to vote. I've voted for both sides (Democrat primary in 2016 and Conservative primary in 2020 since Missouri will never go blue so might as well attempt to get the least dogshit option for the Dems to weakly fight against).

Last I heard, Newsom was not currently a candidate for any election, criticize all you want.

When it's someone they don't like the discussion turns around "electability". But they always want us to get in line for a pro-establishment center-left corporate Democrat.

They keep trying to court voters who will never ever vote for them instead of the people who they claim to share values with.
R stopped with that shit and surprise surprise they got Trump in. Tell me again how we could never have gotten Bernie in or how AOC is too radical...
- It's almost like if you create a platform that completely disenfranchises your voting base to try and appeal to your opponent, people won't continue to support you when you show that you no longer protect their interests.
  It's always, for decades now, attempt after attempt to appeal to the "moderates" and "reach across the aisle" to get R's to flip but never are they allowed to move the needle to the left otherwise they get ousted as being "too radical", in order to pull in the gigantic swatch of the population who do not participate because they see that no one actually gives a shit about them.
I'm sure one of these days conservatives will vote for the (D). We just have to keep trying to meet them in the middle for another thirty years! Let's try putting one of the Cheneys on the ballot next time.
Now whose rights are we gonna sacrifice first? I vote old people's.
Center-right. They haven't had someone any amount on the left since Carter.
Dems became center left? When did that happen?
- They're center-left when compared to a literal fascist dictator.
  They're a right-wing party when compared to the rest of the world.

Newsom also shills harder for corporations than Trump does which means Newsom has a real chance of winning. Whoops.

Newsom also shills harder for corporations than Trump does
(X) Doubt
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/donald-trump-goya-beans/
- "Everything's computer!"
Newsom sucks but when you lie it's just weird. Are you saying you prefer Trump?
- It must be difficult constantly living in denial with paranoia, huh?
This is like trying to figure out which ocean is bigger by looking out from the shore. I just couldn’t say.

I'm blue no matter who. Fuck yeah go new York Mayor (why the fuck is this getting so much attention), fuck yeah go newsome (why the fuck is this getting so much attention before the primary has even been announced? Before the midterms....)

Blue no matter who and asking again. WHERE THE FUCK are the EPSTEIN FILES? Me and my autocorrect friend 🦆 need to know.

Blue no matter who is for the general election though. That’s still over 3 years away. I’ll be here shitting on Newsom every day up until he’s a nominee in a competitive race against a fascist.

Anything that isn't a vote to remove the small fingered vulgarian is a vote FOR the small fingered vulgarian. You choose. You may not like your choices but if you don't vote to oust him you are voting for him.

This is the type of thinking that got him there in the first place.
You want to beat him or whoever succeeds him, find someone people want to vote for

Yes, actually.