Linux for a Windows & Android person (Advice needed)
Linux for a Windows & Android person (Advice needed)
I need to install an OS for someone whose first impulse upon seeing a screen is to touch it, because they are young and their first assumption is a touchscreen.
They know their way around Windows and Windows is probably tought to them at school, so Windows might actually be the smart move… but I fucking hate it.
Is ZorinOS or similar polished enough that I can leave it to someone whose tech literacy is centered around Roblox, TikTok and evading parental locks? I don't want to normalize the Windows-bullshit. But I don't want their first Linux-experience to be frustrating.
I’m hearing a lot of very poor advice in here, at least from my perspective as a Linux user who’s been through the gamut of various distros over the years.
Fedora atomic desktops are not beginner distros. That is not their purpose, and their limitations make many things a person may eventually want to do with their machine a lot more complicated.
Debian? Are we joking here? Debian is an amazing distro for what its purposes are, but it’s not beginner friendly. Debian is bare bones.
Linux Mint is the easiest answer here. Ubuntu LTS (or its classroom based fork edubuntu) is another great answer. I know every Linux user on the internet recoils in horror at the mention of Ubuntu but it really is a drop in plug and play solution for kids and old people.
The only thing I still don't like much about recommending Linux Mint to beginners is that their Cinnamon desktop still uses Xorg which has some horrible display tearing on some Nvidia graphic cards (can be usually fixed with some tinkering and this is also only my personal experience), which is usually not a thing with Wayland and being Xorg it also means it has inferior touchpad gestures (surely not as smooth as Gnome or KDE) which can be important for notebook users. While being very user friendly it is one of the more resource heavy DE's I would say even more than Gnome or KDE. It also seems to have some problems with battery life? The official Gnome and KDE desktop packages for Linux Mint are pretty outdated, are still Xorg versions and aren't officially supported AFAIK (maybe there are some good community maintained packages). Otherwise I agree it's one of the best choices.
My personal favorite for beginners is Fedora Workstation or KDE edition, because it's up to date and fairly hassle free and stable (except the frequent kernel updates which sometime cause issues, but booting the older kernel is straightforward) and does not much modify its packages from the original or push their products on you like Ubuntu.
I think I'm running Wayland on my mint today. Not that I ever cared, and my card is NVIDIA and i don't remember spending much time instaling its drivers
Totally valid. I tried Mint with my father in law before and we had issues as well before I migrated him to Ubuntu which works wonderfully for him. I hadn’t used Mint myself in a couple years and figured the issues were hardware specific.
their limitations make many things a person may eventually want to do with their machine a lot more complicated.
Like what?
just a heads up last I checked roblox wasn't officially supported on Linux, though this may have changed in the last 6 months.
https://devforum.roblox.com/t/the-ultimate-guide-on-how-to-play-roblox-on-linux/3171920
It seems that there are unofficial ports. OP could test it out before.
there's an app called Sober on flathub, developed by creators of Vinegar. i use it to play roblox and i can say it works without any issues. the setup is really simple, since it dowloads everything by itself
I second any recommendation for a kde based distro. Ubuntu or it's derivatives are the easiest place to start. Kubuntu is the kde based flavor iirc.
My daughter just turned 6 and is competent with a mouse and keyboard. They have kid friendly houses and keyboards on Amazon for cheap. She's been daily driving slackware since she was 4 and has no idea how badass she is yet.
Gcompris is a great app. It's a bunch of games for kids to learn letters, typing, mouse skills and some stuff just for fun. Install it on whatever distro you land on. Also, tuxpaint.
Kid friendly houses? In this economy?
Get a PineTab2 and put GCompris on it. If you want a distribution specifically oriented toward pedagogy consider https://primtux.fr/
IMHO though the distribution itself does not matter. What matters is what software you make available for the user and what rights you let them have, e.g. installing apps or adds-ons vs not, Website controls vs not, etc.
Its a pretty dependent question.
Depending on your hardware, I'd say if you consider compatibility first.
Touchscreen is something you mentioned, I've used lenovo laptops that have built in touchscreen that work well on fedora.
They want something close to windows then I say Linux mint.
I have used Linux mint with various ages past 2 years. Very on levels from beginner to complete non tech users. On those that need compatibility with various applications close to windows. Regular Linux mint
On users that just require basic internet and document usage (aka a word like application) Linux mint debian edition (why? Less complicated, for non tech savy people). Less configuration means lower chances of issues popping up.
TLDR base your decision on peoples needs, and your ability to assist with what they have. Right tool for the job. Hope this helps.
Fedora Silverblue is basically Android.
You click on apps in a software store to install, it updates itself (without you noticing) on reboot, the terminal is entirely optional and almost entirely useless.Why is the terminal useless?
I daily drive Silverblue (and the terminal is not useless >:c), and in a vacuum I would probably install Silverblue or another atomic desktop. But I worry about Windows compatibility.
Imagine the feeling when "you just click the .exe and everything installs itself" works for everyone but you. It doesn't matter that downloading executables from random websites is way worse than a proper package manager in pretty much every way.
It's still alienating. Going along with everyones technical dept may still be a nicer experience, because at least it doesn't require the effort of doing something different.
That's what I'm worried about.
Imagine the feeling when “you just click the .exe and everything installs itself” works for everyone but you. It doesn’t matter that downloading executables from random websites is way worse than a proper package manager in pretty much every way.
If this is your aim, you can't really do that with Linux. Better stick with Windows in this case, as that's the only place where this works.
I totally understand where you're coming from, and I'm pessimistic that any flavor of Linux will be an acceptable experience for the person you're describing. Something like Silverblue may be least obstrusive, but compatibility will still be a prominent problem.
Alternatively, you could show them surface level cool stuff that's easier to do with Linux. Like blocking all ads, running your own Minecraft server, downloading YouTube videos, building your own PC with cheap parts (and maybe even pirating movies and TV shows, depending on your own practices and relationship to that person). There's a lot to love about Linux even if you don't care about privacy and open software as abstract values.
Just want to add to the difference in experience:
I leaned Linux, because I wanted to learn Linux and as such I was fine with stumbling a bit from time to time. They want a working computer that does Roblox and homework and don't care much about the rest.
Then staying with Windows forever, no matter how shit it's become and how much it's changed even compared to just 2 years ago, is the only option.
I think the best solution would be to talk first.
Gather 10 reasons why it makes sense. For example, its wayyyyyyyyy cheaper to run linux, ethics, etc. Dont wait for them to get frustrated but approach them first and build up an ethical primacy. Thats how i do it and it works.
From there, you ask them what they need. "Just works tm" is sadly how autocracy works. Under hitler and mussolini, healthy, white, party loyal people had a "just works" situation. Dont ask, dont tell. But foss is democratic. It is messy at times.
Reality is, you can make linux work. If something is really stubborn, you make a vm. Shockingly easy! But if someone wants that polish, that plastic world with 14 year olds with pumped up lips and butt implants, you need to let them go. They are lost and need to face reality.
Gnome + flatpack with no sudo privileges and your golden
How about blendOS? It's Linux with android built in.
Ok, let me rephrase this:
Your kid is too young to understand the concept of a mouse, but they arent young enough to not use Tiktok, a Social media known for killing even young adults attention time. And for some reason they are thought how to use a PC? To a 5-7 year old?
That aside, I recommend using literally Any OS and just making a guest user excluded from the sudoers file. To install new Apps, just use flatpak at user level, and for roblox theres Sober
I would just like to say that I really appreciate everyone's contributions so far; even the little off-topic discussions.
But you are completely misjudging the situation. When I spoke of "first assumption", said they "know their way around Windows" and stated they found ways around prior parental locks, I was actually referring to the fact that "my kid" hasn't even been born yet. We've just slipped two iPads in, one with a YouTube-Kids Elsa Gate loop and the other constantly doom scrolling TikTok and Twitter.
I'm definitely not talking about someone who is a several years older than I was, when I got my first internet connected PC.
Sarcasm aside; they are more than old enough, according to their actual parents. They had a phone for quite some time; same for a Windows notebook. I just happen to have a better notebook laying around, but feel like Windows is sort of shit, and I need a little help with judging if Linux is the right call.
Mint, Pop!OS, or Unbuntu LTS
I'd just install debian because that's what I use so that's what I can most easily provide support for.
My opinions are likely to be in accord with information found at https://www.privacyguides.org/en/desktop/ and https://www.privacyguides.org/en/android/distributions/
As an alternative to making decisions without direct assistance, you might benefit from contracting with another person to make decisions based on requirements you describe (essentially getting a chief information officer (CIO) for yourself). The main reason I'm suggesting this is that having more people involved will make it more likely that someone will know about established best practices relevant to your situation or that someone will have experience with a problem that is similar to the one you're dealing with. Additional reasons I could provide for this would be similar to the reasons people give to discourage someone from handling court appearances without a lawyer or doing surgery on themselves. You might be able to use https://ryf.fsf.org/categories/laptops to find information about how to contact people about your computing needs. Alternatively, you could visit a store (for example, one operated by Walmart).
Uh, I don't have a good answer for that, but I'd give them something like Linux Mint anyways. That way they can look up stuff, watch tutorials and don't have a super niche thing running. Or give them one of the popular gaming distros, if it's that.
Idk. Gnome feels very much like Android to me. And KDE follows similar design patterns to Windows. And kids and teenagers tend to figure out all the things they want. If they have the motivation to do so.
Semantics but gnome and kde were there first. It is android that looks like gnome and windows that looks like kde.