Is Australia's Overton Window Shifting?
Is Australia's Overton Window Shifting?
Since the recent election there's a lot of commentary saying the Liberal party needs to reconsider its policies and re-align with its core values which, when enumerated sound very centrist.
I just watched ABC's q&a, there was a few interesting points. There was a strong consensus that Trump style culture wars are toxic in Australian politics, and that it's unlikely future candidates would take that route.
I don't want to gloat infront of the seppos, but I think what's happening during this aftermath is very salient for all of those "both sides are bad" Americans.
In October last year there seemed to be a lot of users saying that they didn't want to reward the dems with their vote, and that the only way to communicate with the party was to withhold their vote.
I think what's happening right now in Australia demonstrates the importance of voting.
Labor might not be left enough for you personally, but each time the libs are defeated they need to move to the left to be viable, and Labor will have to move further left to differentiate themselves. That is to say, the spectrum of acceptable opinions is moving to the left in an observable manner, right now.
I think it's important to remember: this is the value of preferential voting. We dont need to be concerned with 'the culture war' for labor to win by a landslide. Labor gets the benefit of being centrist.
In america it's only left vs right. Imagine your drunk mother trying to stop your violent father from punching you; that's america.
Now, in Australia, it's more like a frat house dick measuring contest. Anyone could be packing, so you need to be on your guard, there could be turkeys slappin' from any direction.
Labor just isnt the "enemy" in the same way the 'dems' are to the GOP (thanks greens, teals, and weed parties!).
With regards to the American demographic that doesn't vote because both sides suck, in Australia we vote for every party so eventually a preference will be selected. On top of that voting is compulsory. Both these things combined makes it so that voters can vote for their preferred candidate without fear of wasting their vote
Indeed. Many could send Labor a message on Gaza because of it.
I think now would be an excellent time for the Overton window to be pushed even further to the left, given the results of the Federal Election, and to highlight exactly how far from the original "left" Labor has moved. The intent wouldn't be to form government or even have much chance of getting a seat: I'm talking left of Socialist Alliance. And I have some pleasantly controversial policies with which to begin this project. Things The Greens won't touch, and that the Socialist Alliance don't even really have on their radar as they are focussed generally Marxist theory and unions. I'm talking mainly about being honest and open about the need for radical change in economic policy to degrowth, things that the current left parties don't talk about because it's seen as "political suicide". Yup. Need someone in the far far left to tell the emperor they have no clothes.
Some specific fun policies:
- Make advertising illegal (especially billboards, but also on social media, no money changing hands to force shit people don't want to see in front of their eyeballs. Bring back word of mouth!)
- Instigate a compulsory National Service period for young adults (like a gap year between high school and university) for all genders, can choose between military & climate corps
- Massively tax carbon costs for food transport. Those oranges from California should not cost the same as Australian in season oranges, sorry.
I am 100% on board with point 3. And not just food, but all products.
I like point 1 in theory, but have concerns. Billboards are easy, do that 100%. You didn't mention TV, but I assume you'd want it banned there as well as social media? The problem is, you ban advertising on TV and we go back to the days where the ABC is the only player around. I'm not going to be upset if Australia’s Next Top Influencer Chef or Farmer Wants a Renovation go away, but a lot of people do obviously get value in them. And the consequences if commercial sport went away would be much more severe, given their role in encouraging young people to get out and be active. I would immediately ban gambling ads, and would be open to the idea of banning alcohol ads and ads for other harmful products. But banning all advertising on TV is a non-starter, unless you can first come up with a serious viable alternative revenue stream. If commercial social media died, I would be much less upset. But do you mean social media, or do you mean all websites? YouTube and the Guardian going away would be a real loss in a way Twitter and Facebook would not.
Point 2 is an absolute no. Military chauvinistic bullshit. We're not a country at severe threat of invasion like Taiwan or South Korea, where national service might be justified. As someone more interested in an anarchist style left than a statist one, I can't even begin to condone this idea.
Sweet on 3. I'm also big on adjusting that as a carbon tax, so for example, your tax if your goods ship via sail/carbon neutral means is way less than carbon intensive transport. But refrigerated long range transport seems super crazy at this point.
1 I am open to persuasion on. I know there's some parts of the world that outlawed billboards, and that's a vast improvement and a public good for a more restful visual environment. We've seen the evil perpetrated on the internet through advertising. It's just the worst way to have monetised everything, and in hindsight was a massive mistake, and has been since long before this (look up the history if deBeers, and advertising in general. I actually studied advertising briefly as one of several streams in graphic design study, and backed out after one semester, I did not have the stomach for it). People of Fedi are largely already convinced advertising for monetisation is evil. Maybe some kind of limitation in advertising regarding company size, dunno, but I really don't like the future of Idiocracy, and smarter people than me have already commented that we're more than halfway there.
And to 2. Allow me to explain further. I first came to this idea of compulsory national service after a conversation at a nightclub over a decade ago where it was mentioned that only 2 nations in the world (at the time) had conscription for all genders: Sweden and Malaysia. This was incorrect as there were several more, as I discovered when I looked it up, and most northern European countries have added conscription for women since. But the person speaking was female and had said it was fantastic, got her opportunities that she might not have had otherwise, allowed her experience in leadership roles that were rare at the time (and often still are in many places), and lifelong friends.
This article just published 3 days ago pretty much gives a bigger overview and I agree with.
https://www.abc.net.au/religion/time-to-consider-mandatory-national-service-in-australia/105257832
I think that we are going to need more social cohesiveness as the world becomes more unstable both geopolitically and physically as climate change really ramps up.
And please note, I do not believe anyone should be required to serve mandatory military service: that's why I stated specifically military OR climate corps.
Oh! Also forgot to say: we already came up with a model to remove, very successfully, advertising from TV:
it was called Netflix.
Unfortunately it got enshittified, and now everything is a giant shit show in that department.
But you make advertising illegal, and companies are still going to have subscribers.
I'm also pretty happy with just ABC iView these days, I rarely even bother with SBS and haven't had Netflix for years.
There's also Beamafilm and other public library initiatives.
I was reading the first part of your comment thinking that anything left of the greens is too nutty for me, but then I would absolutely vote for any of those three policies.
You're right in that they're non-starters politically, but certainly part of an idealist utopia.
I was reading the first part of your comment thinking that anything left of the greens is too nutty for me, but then I would absolutely vote for any of those three policies.
This is a pretty common view where people think the Greens (or left of that) are extremist, but when given actual Green's policies tend to prefer those policies when polled.
Thanks! Good to see there's at least one other nutter here in Fedi that would vote for these 😊 the idea would be to go into it knowing that the majority would say "you've got to be f&*>ing joking mate" - which is exactly the Overton window strategy of right-wingers: of which Overton was one. We gotta start really pulling back not just to the centre but far beyond.
Might as well throw my cent in:
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yes yes yes
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I'd rather SES and other emergency services than military training. What does a climate corp do?
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I don't know enough to say 100% support, but it sounds smart to me. Not even just from an environmental pollution POV. That said, there would also need to be controls to avoid local price gouging.
My vision would be a peace corps-like body that works on projects that specifically are designed to mitigate climate change, or respond to disasters caused by climate change. Planting trees, creating bike lanes, working in tech areas that are helping with modelling and mitigation....transition town initiatives, rewilding... I'm sure many other options.
I assume Climate Corp would be like Park Rangers or Environmental cleanup.
When we were younger National Parks used to recruit students during school holidays to perform works around the parks. We used to get food and accommodation and would maintain the public facilities, clear overgrown bushland and perform basic maintenance on infrastructure.
Nowadays, due to Economic Rationalism, they pay top-dollar for professional contractors to perform the work, or in most cases, just don’t perform the work.
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My hatred of advertising was probably a big part of why my small business failed.
People need to be able to inform the market of their product and services. Johnny graduates as an accountant can he not put an ad in the classifieds or a sign on his office? I think there should be places where advertising is acceptable where people can look for what they might need, rather than having companies competing for our attention while telling us that we're incomplete without their things.
Yes that's fair, but stricter controls on how and where that happens. Classifieds were always a reasonable thing, and without them the press has been destroyed, but the enshittification of online marketplaces has made the deal really unfair for everyone. The enshittification of socially media through advertising, especially political, has been catastrophic.
Cory Doctorow has had a lot of great things to say about this, and much stricter control is needed to stop platforms making everything awful for both individuals and businesses, but overall I did not get a lot of value when I used to advertise my small business and I just rely on word of mouth largely these days. Been in business over 20 years.
Degrowth & Transport Carbon Offsets may be difficult to balance until there is a huge shift away from consumerism.
It will take a lot of convincing the electorate that they can’t have their latest consumerist bauble unless they make it themselves, or find someone local to make it.
Even if they find someone to make it, decentralised manufacturing is usually more expensive (from an environmental impact view) than mass-produced goods.
A million individual people making a jacket each produces more waste than 10 people working together to build a million jackets.
Labor might not be left enough for you personally,
Left enough ? They're about middle right. The US Dems are more policy aliged with our LNP though.
I'm not sure people get out much ? We've already done what the US is doing now. Australia's refugee and immigrant policy is what America and the UK are using (off shoring), its just illegal to report on and the horror is widely supoorted by Australoans..
We deport "criminals" if they have another nationally, as the US now does , we have a bunch of ologarchs, we have legal discrimination against LBGQT+ by fucked up religious organisations. You are not an Australian citizen if you are born here etc etc
There was a strong consensus that Trump style culture wars are toxic in Australian politics
Both sides are bad here in Australia, the horror is so many people disagreeing :(
Left enough ? They're about middle right.
You realise this is a matter of perspective?
Policies that feel "middle right" to you might feel "radical left" to someone else.
Regardless, my question isn't "how left are we" but "are we moving towards the left right now".
Given that the Liberals just voted for a moderate as their new leader I'd say that we are.
Except the Liberals are now tacking even further to the right:
EDIT - 20/5 Well... Kind of?
I saw the ONP vote - Sadly, it was upwards of 15% in some seats. If they head right, they'll be getting some of that action.
Personally, I think most of the population is to be found in the other direction. It might take them another decade or so to admit they're wrong. Or perhaps a new political movement will pop up in that time and supplant them? Who can say? I doubt however a strong move to the right will lead them to government.
I can't read the whole article but even the prt before the pay wall says party moderates aren't happy with the move. It remains to be seen whether Taylor will get the leadership.
Angus Taylor has secured the defection of Nationals senator Jacinta Nampijinpa Price as part of his run for the leadership of the Liberal Party, which he vowed to rebuild by encouraging more robust internal policy debate and promoting fresh talent.
But the recruitment of Price – a popular figure among conservatives who raised eyebrows when she pledged to “Make Australia Great Again” and is expected to be Taylor’s deputy – has outraged Liberal moderates, who say it will push the party even further to the right and fast-track its destruction.
The Nationals, too, were furious at Price taking her number to the Liberals after the junior Coalition partner had nurtured her.
Confirming publicly for the first time he was running for the leadership, Taylor told The Australian Financial Review she was an “extraordinary addition” to the Liberal Party.
“I strongly welcome a strong, capable woman in Jacinta,” he said. ”We want as many people in the Liberal Party room as possible.”
Price, whose defection was brokered in part by Tony Abbott, said the Liberal Party was her “natural home”.
“The Liberal Party is the freedom party, the party of responsibility,” she said.
“Given the current circumstances, I think now more than ever, we need strong people within the Liberal Party, and we need to be able to rebuild, we need to ensure that we don’t lose support, broad support, as part of a wider coalition.”
She declined to confirm she would run as deputy, but said, “I will not put any limitations on myself.”
Taylor told the Financial Review in an interview that if successful in his leadership bid, he would draw on his experience in his business career of overhauling companies to help rebuild the Liberal Party at a parliamentary and organisational level.
He has spent the past five days talking to colleagues, including MPs who have lost their seats and Liberal Party members, about what went wrong in the party’s worst-ever election loss.
“There is a widely held view that it needs to be a more collaborative and collegiate environment, where we can have more robust debate despite differences of view,” Taylor said.
“It’s a big change for the party room and has come through loud and clear from colleagues.”
With counting still underway, the election drubbing has reduced the Coalition to 40 seats in the 150-seat lower house, with six still uncertain. Opposition Leader Peter Dutton was the most senior of more than a dozen MPs to lose their seats.
While Taylor refused to criticise Dutton directly, Liberals have pointed to a centralisation of power in the leader’s office and a lack of empowering shadow ministers to develop policies as key problems under his reign.
Taylor said the party must improve at investing in the next generation of talent.
The Liberals have pencilled in a meeting in Canberra on Tuesday next week to decide the leadership. At this stage, Ley is believed to be ahead on the numbers, but one key Taylor backer believed the Price coup would help close the gap.
“It doesn’t do it on its own,” he said.
Price is a darling of the Coalition’s right wing, including influential conservative commentators who believe the best response to Saturday’s rout is to lurch further to the right.
Moderates backing Ley were incredulous. “That would be a hostile takeover of the Liberal Party,” said one senior moderate MP speaking on the condition of anonymity.
“On Saturday, our threadbare economic agenda and our aping of [Donald] Trump were rejected.
“This is an attempt to drive the party further to the right.”
As a Country Liberal Party senator, Price can choose which party room to sit with when in Canberra.
During her first term, between 2022 and 2025, she was a member of the Nationals.
Nationals leader David Littleproud was disappointed at what he felt was Price’s ingratitude.
“The Nationals negotiated an extra position in shadow cabinet before the election to give Senator Nampijinpa Price a promotion and shadow ministerial opportunity,” he said.
“The Nationals were the first to lead the ‘No’ case in relation to the Voice, backing Senator Nampijinpa Price early and before anyone else did.
“I appreciate Senator Nampijinpa Price has ambition that extends beyond the possibilities of the Nationals, and I wish her well.”
Nationals Senator Matt Canavan was scathing.
“Jacinta Price’s decision to put her own ambition over the will of the voters is exactly why people are sick of politicians,” he said.
“Jacinta Price was elected less than a week ago as a senator who would sit in the Nationals party room.”
One party source, who asked not to be named, said Price should run for one of the two lower house seats in the Northern Territory as a Liberal, not take a traditional Nationals Senate spot to the Liberals.
“If she’s that great, why wasn’t she vying for the lower house at the election?”
Ley is yet to publicly declare her candidacy but has been furiously working the phones.
Taylor, a former McKinsey partner who has advised some of Australia’s biggest companies, including Rio Tinto, declined to be drawn on specifics of the election failure, or the economic policies that he oversaw, which have been criticised by some colleagues.
He said there would be future opportunities for a deeper post-mortem.
“Dutts actually did do an extraordinary job holding the party room together,” Taylor said. “Finger-pointing is really unhelpful at times like this.”
NSW moderates, led by Senator Andrew Bragg, are overwhelmingly supporting Ley for the leadership, while most conservatives in the party are behind Taylor.
A conservative MP said the numbers appeared to be “finely balanced” between Taylor and Ley.
Before Price’s defection was announced, the conservative MP said some moderates in Victoria and Queensland may be prepared to back Taylor over Ley.
“Frankly, she’s just not up to the job,” an MP said.
A centrist MP who was yet to decide which candidate to support said Ley’s office was widely suspected of leaking to the media against colleagues when Dutton was opposition leader, raising issues of trust with some colleagues.
Former Liberal premiers including Nick Greiner, Barry O’Farrell and Jeff Kennett backed Ley to become the first female leader of the centre-right party, as first reported by Nine’s The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age on Thursday.
Taylor has faced harsh criticisms from colleagues about a failure to take the fight up to Labor on inflation and 12 interest rates rises during its first term of government.
People claimed the same thing when Biden won in 2020. That the republicans would have to moderate, that anyone trump like wouldnt get elected again. And yet...