Quick everyone, prevent a warning text or something

There was a long time when a casual user would have been better off on Windows, but I don't think that's true anymore, at least not on every distro.

Just as you can use Windows for years and never need Group Policy or Regedit, you can do Linux just the same without terminal.

This is the area where I feel Linux has come the farthest since I became interested in it.

I just have never had a Linux system that didn't require some sort of terminal work to fix the occasional bug. A couple of updates ago Fedora left me with conflicting packages that needed the terminal to straighten out.
Here's the thing that a lot of long-term linux users don't seem to understand: If it involves typing out a command in a terminal, or editing a configuration text file, 99% of casual users are already out. It doesn't matter if they just copy-paste a command or have change a single number in a text file, they literally don't even want to try, they consider that "too complicated".
- Users copying and pasting random command line code from the Internet should be fine
- and that's why catering to casuals is a loosing game that shouldn't be bothered with.
If you are using Linux you should learn terminal basics. The terminal is a very powerful tool that can be useful if you learn it. That doesn't mean you need to use it all the time but it is nice to have in some cases.

No, seriously.

This mindset of, “If you don’t like to read pages of documentation to figure out how to do the thing you’re wanting to do, then maybe Linux isn’t for you?” Or the “god. How dare you ask such a STUPID question. You’re using Linux wrong and it probably isn’t for you. Go back to baby’s first OS!” Is the biggest gripe I have about using Linux.

Especially since the manpages are not written to always be comprehensible for end-users, but for developers and professionals. Some tools like tldr can help, however they rarely come preinstalled and aren't getting the attention they deserve.
So you ever tried support with windows? Go to some crappy community site with people who barely know what they are talking about and try some powershell and regedit crap.
Or go read conflicting Microsoft documentation that always seems to make man files look easy.
Its computers. You read stuff to deal with stuff, the OS is irrelevant.
My gripe is "oh, you picked the wrong distro"
I just want my printer to work ffs
- I'd put that one on the printer manufacturers. They love making them crappy.

The biggest barrier to widespread adoption is the portion of the toxic parts of the general community. You know who they are, you see them all the time. They exist across all distros, and they seem to go out of their way to make the experience as miserable as possible when new users are asking simple questions.

They often are some of the first people new users interact with when needing help transitioning over. They seek out those beginner questions to act superior, and just turn the average user off to the point they decide to never try it again.

Without strong moderation to reduce that dipshit commentary, the Linux community will always be working against mainstream adoption.

- Discovered Veronica recently... ❤

To configure most suckless tools you need to... recompile them. The readme says:

Because dwm is customized through editing its source code, it's pointless to make binary packages of it. This keeps its userbase small and elitist. No novices asking stupid questions.

But if you are trying to compile suckless tools, you are already in too deep.

Those dudes are lost in the sauce. Nobody should be using big endian these days
Wow. Just wow. What a bunch of utter darlings. Just let them stew in their own idiocy.
Edit: To clarify, I mean the people who wrote this readme.
LOL yes, I had a look at those too when I was looking for a more minimal terminal. Noped the fuck out when I read you had to recompile the tools to configure them.
It's not that this is beyond my skill level, but that is just so ... why would I want to do that?
Acting like this is some impossible task is a bit of a stretch. It's 2 commands.

The problem is that the road between creating a piece of software that does something well, and then creating simplification layers on top of it is typically much longer than just "edit a config file" and "here's a readme".

You need extra documentation, config gating and workflow, warnings, UI/UX work etc.

I know there are Linux elitists but kind of expecting that much extra work for what is still at it's core mostly volunteer software seems like it's own form of elitism.

The thing is, simple can mean two things, and they are quite often at odds with each other.
It can mean simple to understand, or simple to use.
For example, a piece of software that's just a binary, a config file and a man page describing the config file and the software's behavior is generally quite easy to understand. Like, you can fit the idea of the program entirely into your mind and "comprehend" it, though it may not be easy to use for a novice.
By contrast, a piece of software that contains additional layers for easy of use, like a GUI to edit options, may be simple to use, but not necessarily simple to understand. The additional layers add more complexity that does not contribute to core functionality of the program, it can become unclear what gets changed where when you click on buttons, the config file is likely not documented, human readable or editable, or it may even be a completely opaque configuration database (the registry), ... So making the software more simple to use, often makes it harder to comprehend.
I, and I think many other nerds, like software that is simple in the "comprehensible" sense, we want to be able to wrap our head around it completely and we don't mind putting in a little bit of effort to achieve that comprehension, whereas other people prefer to hit the ground running.
Absolutely agreed, I find it extremely telling that most people who say that have never personally contributed nor donated. Its ok to have expectations but its not ok to make demands from volunteers, thats why so many devs get burnt out and leave.

But I've never met anyone like this. Do they exist?

They are literally in this thread here.
Git gud n00b!
/s, of course.
I've come across this kind of response a few times on here and elsewhere, but I think it's nowhere near as prevalent as it's sometimes made out to be.

Agreed. I wish moderators would ban those people from linux communities and more users would report their elitist behaviour. It's really annoying to ask a question and get belittled for having the audacity of being ignorant.

I understand these people lack power elsewhere in their lives and want to be powerful where they believe themselves to be experts, but it's a real pity they express it with a complete lack of empathy. If you don't want to help, don't say anything. Let somebody who does want to help nicely do the helping.

Anti Commercial-AI license

It's a sadly entrenched part of the culture. Literally 30 years ago the joke was "if you ask a question in a linux forum you get a bunch of shitheads screaming rtfm. But phrase it as a complaint about linux not doing something windows can, and they will fall over themselves with detailed instructions to prove you wrong"

Fuck right off with that, whoever actually made this image. I am fed up with "simplification", which is actually making everything as dumb and as closed as possible

- Lol. I am writing this from a phone where I can't even see entire file system. Fuck those who made this, fuck those who think it is a good thing

man this is a good linux meme, its funny and its real criticism of linux. why were all the linux memes shitty for a while there? why are they better now suddenly?

Hey, I installed Arch btw with Hyprland and I gotta say, the docs are super newbie-friendly. No problems on my end.

The Arch Wiki is so nice

No, I am the fire department for my family who're currently moving over to Linux and are already fed up with the communities' toxicity and unhelpful nature in most corners of the internet. And I can't blame them, it's an awful experience. The self-righteousness you're putting on display with your comment is part of the problem.
- Tim Apple will sell you computers. If you don't want to know how a computer works you probably shouldn't use Linux.
- Oh and if you're the IT guy then you should probably just get used to the idea of supporting a mixed network. Windows, Mac, Linux can all live in harmony but don't expect "users" to do User things.

Linux is so complicated!

Translation:

Linux actually isn't Windows.

Absolutely this, im all in favor of making Linux more accessible but we dont need to become a Windows clone

Fedora Kinoite/Silverblue is hard to fuck up and Just Works®

Yeah, I think the biggest obstacle to wider adoption of Linux is the lack of availability of devices that come with it installed. As long as you can't buy a Linux PC at Best Buy & co, it will always be somewhat niche. Pretty much anyone can use Linux these days but installing it is just too much of a hassle for the average user.
- Yeah, the days of end users installing their own OS is in the past, PCs are appliances for most people now.
Yes, except I needed to modify some kernel parameters to fix display artifacts a few months ago due to an upstream bug. Wasn't a big deal for me but the user who uses the system, even the concept of editing some parameters is beyond their comprehension.

What's something you think could be made easier or just fixed if implemented as a plugin in kde, gnome, or as a software for every other DE?

I don't think that there is any one issue that hurts the Linux desktop, I think it is more a matter of death by a thousand cuts.
I think for the Linux desktop to be (more) successful we need dedicated QA teams, with a direct connection to usability developers that constantly test and write automated tests for the whole integration on different hardware, and fix any issue as well.
- Valve doesn't have much interest besides it working good enough, so we would need either china or EU to fund a group to do that for us
- you're describing opensuse Tumbleweed and its OpenQA suite

I’ve seen the exact same assholes in this community. They’ll argue on one hand that it’s not too complicated, then openly push back against any UI improvement because they don’t want more people moving into their niche. Gatekeeping turds.

If you don't like a particular piece of software move on to something else. It is entirely up to the dev since it is ultimately there project. They owe nothing to you and demanding things does nothing but annoy everyone.
- I’m gonna point out the reluctance to improve the user experience to those who complain at the low number of user migrations. Try and stop me.
Example? Why are there always people who can find these unicorns and I never seem to run into them.
Or are you being extreme in calling gatekeeping because they feel they don't need the GUI, because it just works? Someone argued with me about how a GUI is necessary for everything and frankly it is the slowest way to convey information and the least accurate.
But if YOU want a GUI, welcome to open source, and feel free to implement it.
Point is, I don't think people are trying to gatekeep, or hold onto their niche, it just doesn't make sense or scratch their own itch.
- I’ve seen it in this very sub. But I’m not gonna hunt down the comments.

No more shall man have wings to bear him to paradise
Henceforth he shall walk

Lol, what? This is suggesting window is simple?

Linux is so much better in this regard.

People don't see it because they have habits, but once you support both OS's, windows is full of bizarre quirks and nonsense.

This better be about the most obscure thing ever

I don’t want things to get simpler to the detriment of the power that Linux has. As long as there’s no regression who cares

Simplification is kind of vague

Just let the user decide

Yeah they probably mean easy. And probably easy for me, or what I already know.
That said, one of the complaints I commonly hear about Gnome is that it's simplified to the point of being hard to use. So again, simplification is probably not what they mean.

Arch wiki btw

My only beef with this lately has been valutwarden.

like look, I get it, http is shit, but I'm on a local network and it isn't shared or even published to the greater internet in any way... can't I NO, YOU WILL USE DNS CERTS PER ARTICLE 1.2 OF THE INSTALLATION GUIDE AND YOU WILL SET UP A REVERSE PROXY WITH CLOUDFLARE...

ughhhh

Heres the thing, it strongly depends what you mean by "simplification" and tbh im not sure that would be good for Linux. Im all in favor of adding accessibility features and making desktops more complete but sometimes complexity or being different is good. I love tiling for example, I love how comsic implemets tiling. However tiling isnt naturally intuitive to Windows users, does that mean we need to abandon it in favor of "simplification"? Do we need to abandon the system of distro maintained repos and package managers because "its too complicated"?

I suppose my point is that we should make Linux more accessible by lowering the skill floor to use it but it should not and does not require lowering the skill ceiling for advanced users like me. I love the focus on TUI software and I love the terminal (that doesn't mean GUI software should get less love, it means I would rather not see TUI packages sacrificed).

Furthermore I cannot speak for anyone but myself but I personally try to help people in matrix/discord chats and places like this. However sometimes I will come across someone whos use case doesn't fit Linux. Maybe they need a specific software, maybe they're using niche proprietary hardware that they need, but I personally refuse to suggest Linux to someone if it wont be good for them. If someone tells me "hey I use Linux but I need some software like adobe" I would suggest they reinstall Windows. In addition before I reccomend Linux to someone I tell them that Linux isnt Windows, I make it clear there are downsides that need to be taken with the upsides and sometimes things wont work exactly the same.

TLDR: Im all for people using Linux, however we shouldn't lie to ourselves and others

This meme just needs a few arrows and ten more text labels and then it'll really get its point across.

You're good these days until you want to do anything nonstandard.

By use case, the limited amount of things my parents do with their Future Shop still existed era Laptops got them comfortable with Fedora KDE pretty quickly.

Coming to a Linux distro as a Windows power user? I had skill issues.