US academic arrested in Thailand for insulting monarchy
US academic arrested in Thailand for insulting monarchy
Thailand has one of the world's strictest laws against criticizing the country's powerful monarchy. Foreigners are very rarely charged under the law, which prescribes up to 15 years in prison for those found guilty.
Summary
Thai police arrested US academic Paul Chambers on charges of insulting the monarchy and violating computer crime laws, linked to remarks made during an online seminar.
Chambers, a political science professor at Naresuan University, was summoned after a complaint by the Thai Army.
He denied the charges and was denied bail, with no trial date set. Thailand enforces strict lèse-majesté laws under Article 112, carrying up to 15 years in prison.
Am in Thailand rn. He was doing research on thai police and clearly got in trouble over that. The dispute is literally him answering 1 question "whether king has more power than PM" and he said "yes" - at least that's what we currently think is happening.
Either way thai police is been through a lot of shit rn with latest being basically thai version of Epstein killing himself in a cell and in general thai police is struggling to keep corruption hidden with such dataflow and displeasement wirh current leadership.
I'm not thai but that's what I hear from my thai friends here.
And that, friends, is why it’s important to understand that when you travel to other countries, you’re a guest, and you need to fucking act like it.
Edit: my point is that not all countries have freedom of speech, and the consequences for violating it in some places are quite severe. I’m not saying freedom of speech and expression is bad, or not worth defending. Im saying you need to understand where protesting and civil disobedience will make a difference, and which countries will treat you as grist for the mill. You wouldn’t want to do something like this in the PRC or Russia, for instance, either.
Sure, but freedom of speech should be protected from government prosecution or suppression to the extent possible - a simple concept that seems to be fading from our collective memory more and more with each passing year.
Sure, but freedom of speech should be protected from government prosecution or suppression...
Why? That's not fundamental to a functioning society. Its not an inalienable right.
In Thailand, a monarchy, the monarchy is sacrosanct. Who are you to tell them that's wrong?
...to the extent possible*...
...or to the extent that society/community desires... FTFY
Don't get me wrong, in Canada, I think speech absolutely needs to be protected. But there are still limits to that. For example, hate speech should be prohibited.
Did you know "obscenity" is not protected by the first amendment in the US? What does that even mean? It really depends on how society views things. https://uwm.edu/freespeech/faqs/what-is-obscenity/#%3A~%3Atext=Speech+about+sex+and+sexuality%2Cprotected+by+the+First+Amendment
In Thailand, they put limits on speech that include not insulting the monarchy. It really doesn't seem that different. (And I won't give you my opinion on it.)
It has nothing to do with being a guest. Dude lived in Thailand for years as he was teaching there and researching Thai police activities. He's clearly going down for that not for not being careful.
Chambers, who has lived in Thailand for years, specializes in studying the influence of the Thai military, which plays a prominent role in the nation's politics.
This is the sole reason for the arrest. Besides, why are you arguing someone who has lived in a country for years is just a guest?
The argument is symbolic. He's still a foreigner and will always look and sound like a foreigner. His Thai friends will consider him part of the community, but he's just some expat to everyone else.
I couldn't agree more. I have been to Thailand several times and make it a point even among Thai you consider as friends to just never discuss the Monarchy. I made the mistake of bad mouthing the Pope once in the Philippines.
its always westerners doing these kinds of sht. i remember one where there is avideo of an american-chinese, went to chinas yulin festival and attacked one of the patrons/sellers there because he got mad because dogs were getting eaten. different culture, respect it, even if they are questionable things happening.
Or in the US, it seems.
Good thing nothing like that could happen in the good ol US of A
When in Rome, do as the Romans do.
Thailand’s lèse majesté laws are very strict. The government treats insults to the monarchy as a harm to the entire country.
Just don’t do it! If you’re not a Thai person then what business do you have with the monarchy anyway?
If you’re not a Thai person then what business do you have with the monarchy anyway?
Thats a dumb line. You should be able to criticize anyone, especially those in power
Sure but if you go to Thailand and do it you'll go to jail. It's well known. If you don't like it don't go to Thailand.
Also, while I'm not defending the law, Thais are extremely reverent to their royal family. It's part of their cultural identity. It's not like Britain or something where the royals are merely tolerated.
It seems like every 10 years or so a story like this comes up.
I remember in the 90s there was a case of a teenager who vandalized or put graffiti on a building in some place like Singapore and was sentenced to caning. There was this huge outcry about how cruel it was and such, and I remember (I was in high school) thinking that the guy was an idiot who made how own bed.
Then you get Otto Warmbier who somehow was allowed into North Korea and then decided it was a good idea to rip a post of the country's founder off the wall.
The lesson? Know where you are. When you're not in Kansas, then don't do Kansas things. Consequences are different in different parts of the world. It's really easy to be a respectful traveler.
Yeah. Sometimes I think people are so used to media (TV, movies, video games) and the distancing effect of being in a vehicle (looking out a window at people) that they’re actually capable of travelling to another country without actually believing that they are there in person.
Apart from stories like this, there are countless other stories of clueless travellers who walk around treating locals like NPCs, not really realizing how annoying and offensive they are. These big blowback stories are just the tip of the iceberg on that whole genre of stupidity.
Someone else in this thread said he's basically been set up / framed because he fell out of favour with the police. Another well established no-no in Thailand.
Just don’t do it! If you’re not a Thai person then what business do you have with the monarchy anyway
What if you're part Thai, or specifically, one part of you is Thai? 😆
Americans get really upset when people go to the US and do things like they do in their home country, but also expect to be able to act like Americans in other countries. It's a little arrogant or ignorant. Some people who who were even invited to study in the US have been deported for doing things that Americans do themselves, like protesting.
Whittle this story down to its core and you have, "guest in country breaks law and gets punished". Is that really surprising? How about, "guest in country exercises rights of citizens and gets punished?"
Fun fact about thailand. The monarch lives most of the time in the bavarian alps and the starnberger lake
In USA academics are kidnapped and disappeared for protesting genocide.
And what does that have to do with this case?
Aaaand another country made it onto the list of countries I'll avoid visiting.
The thumbnail reminded me of that legendary Kimchi slap scene.