Republicans are enemies of liberty
Republicans are enemies of liberty
111 comments
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Republicans don't want small government, they want a fascist police state and a corrupt military industrial complex to oppress people around the world to steal their shit while funding profitable wars for their contractors.
I think the last 2 people who wanted small government and balanced budgets were like John McCain (dead) and John Kasich (retired, but endorsed Joe Biden in 2020) and they're no longer relevant.
Honestly, as a party, they need to go. I want an opposition party to the Democrats, but they're not it. Hell, America really needs ranked choice voting and more open primaries, and probably 4 major political parties.
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Hence the meme where the Republican party kills the Libertarians
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Interesting, the only thing that sets apart the US from being another Russia is the fact that the GOP has to switch with the democratic party every few years
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Look I know that's a hyperbolic statement because you're dissatisfied with the USA's political landscape, I am and I'm not American because their politics bleeds heavily internationally through culture.
But the US is FAR FAR away from being like Russia. It's so different in many ways that to compare the two is like saying Chalk is almost like Cheese because their chemical formulas both have Carbon in them. It's completely nonsensical. Anything organic has carbon in it.
Just like how all countries have common problems: corruption, malfunctioning subsystems within the government machine, wealth inequality, etc, the list is endless.
The difference is the whole the parts make up.
Let's take a left-field example: smiling and saying hello to strangers.
Americans (with some exceptions like NYC residents) are stereotyped as being friendly and willing to smile and make small talk with strangers as a form of public politeness. Almost to the point of being over familiar and can come across as superficial.
Russians (again this is stereotyped) would think any stranger smiling at them is someone not to be trusted because they want something from you. But if you spend a lot of time around one, get to know them, I've been told they are very welcoming.
The reasons why? Vastly different cultural values and societies that reflect those values.
I could go on with more examples but this comment is long enough.
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Хаха, нет, даже не близко
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username go brrrrrr
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and probably 4 major political parties.
George Washington was generally against political parties, but especially opposed to bicameralism.
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Hey now, be fair, not all self described libertarians are just being dishonest about their political affiliations.
Some don't know how anything works and call themselves libertarian because they think it sounds cool.
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They still side together on every issue
So you think that Libertarians believe drugs should be illegal, the government should ban abortion, books, and gay rights, and tons of money should be spent on military budgets and corporate subsidies? That's like the opposite of Libertarianism. But you're right, there are a lot of Republicans who incorrectly call themselves libertarian.
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Libertarians are just Republicans that don't want to say they're Republicans, their stances are almost completely the same.
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Actual libertarians would never vote Republican. They’d be pro-choice, pro-trans rights, against any kind of book ban and for way less invasive religion in the state.
People who vote republicans and call themselves libertarian only like their own freedom.
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It is true and unfortunately common that many Americans who claim to be Libertarians are generally Republicans who don't want the label. It is also true that no true Libertarian would align themselves with the Republican party as it is today, or maybe as it has ever been. The two ideologies are dramatically different. Libertarians are closer to anarchists and republicans are closer to fascists.
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Republicans run on the campaign that government doesn't work, and once they are in power they prove it.
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It’s weird seeing American “libertarians”. In Australia, the Liberal Democrat Party were the first to support same sex marriage and drug decriminalisation (even before the far-left Greens) and have long supported peoples right to decide for themselves on euthanasia and abortion. They’ve been the only voice against the governments overreach on internet filtering and their power to secretly force companies to write backdoors into their software. So basically the opposite of American “libertarians”.
After winning some seats about 8-10 years ago, the major parties realised they could marginalise the LDP on issues like gun control, which most Australians know nothing about but support with blind enthusiasm anyway. So we’re back to the stats-quo of 4 parties, Lib/Nat vs Labor/Greens.
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American libertarians will say they support things like gay rights and drug decriminalization but they will never actually vote in a way that creates change. They will vote for the Republican that claims to want small government but does nothing to further that ideology. Even if that politician is actively fighting against other causes that libertarians claim to give a damn about.
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Similar thing with the Lib Dems here in the UK. More socially progressive than Labour, and in theory "centrist" on economics but were also arguably more progressive than even Corbyns Labour. Then as soon as they won a decent amount of seats both the right and left wing media dragged them through the mud to stop them being a threat to the 2 party system that theve invested tons of money into controlling.
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I do think libertarianism has some principles and concepts that are valuable, I would have even called myself libertarian-ish at certain points, but over the years it's fallen into a similar bucket as communism from my perspective.
It's an attractive system until you start introducing the people.
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I can't speak for everyone but I don't see much out there that gives me the ground to tell someone else how to live their life. So until it affects me or someone else, I have a hard time justifying violence, which is where the "live and let live" thing comes from.
I think that gets a lot of people in the door, and then the reality gets messy. But I don't think that central principle is trash. And the first part of caring for someone else is recognizing their rights as an individual. It's why the party was the first to include marriage equality explicitly as part of their platform nearly four decades before democrats. When democratic presidents and presidential candidates were pushing DOMA, libertarians had had as a tent pole for decades already. And that is the fundamental difference: it's not good enough to have a government that agrees good things are good, they can change their mind and have a bad track record. The libertarian view is that it ought to be a high-bar for anyone to presume the ability to intrude on what's your business alone.
So yes, there's a lot of mess where the rubber meets the road, but there's a lot of good there. A lot of people eventually realize as nice and simple as what I just said above is, there's very precious little in this world that is exclusively "your business alone". Still, the principles a good enough starting point, and you'll find a lot of people are pretty open to things if they're a net positive and applied equitably. You'll find a lot of libertarians that are way more opposed to subsidizing the likes of lockheed martin than they are about medicare for all or food stamps. Hell, there are people that still consider themselves libertarians who are proponents of UBI.
I had hoped the party would siphon off some of the more reasonable republicans rather than catch the crazy itself. Sadly that's not how it played out. Add that to the crazies ("age of consent is a violation of my rights!"), and I 100% get your take. But man... I don't know about you but I'd sleep much better in a Garry Johnson/Biden election than a DeSantis/Biden election.
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Libertarianism is a very wide spectrum and isn't really nailed down to a single ideology. There's forms of socialism, capitalism, and communism with libertarian counterparts.
I don't really say this outloud because people get the wrong idea but I consider myself a libertarian, but I do not associate with any party (especially not the de facto american libertarian party)
My beliefs are this:
- You should be free to do as you wish that does not impede on the freedoms of others. For instance, you should be free to use substances as you wish, but you shouldn't be free to operate a motor vehicle or heavy machinery under the influence because it is dangerous and could injure or kill someone, therefore impeding their freedoms.
- The government should have minimal involvement in regulating the people, and the people themselves play a role in governing the country. Get rid of the electoral college, popular vote should be the way to win elections.
- I have absolutely nothing against taxes, but I think the people should have a choice on where their tax dollars go on an individual level. Everyone gets a budget set accordingly to their income, and the individual chooses (at least a percentage) of where their tax dollars go. Every year when tax time comes, you record this to be audited. This way the government can still allocate funds where needed, but they can't overinflate anything's budget without the approval of the people, or vice versa. BTW, no tax cuts for "charitable donations", if you truly wish to be charitable, then you can donate along with your taxes :).
This is unironically the best approach in my opinion. Not looking to start a debate or anything, just thought I'd give my .02. I know the system may not be perfect, but no system is.
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It's the sort of thing that people think they are until they look around and it's just people who don't want to pay taxes, and by extension believe that poor people deserve to die.
Republicans are just libertarians who've realised they can weaponise the crazies to win elections.
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Things aren't just black and white and I wish people didn't feel like they had to pick teams. I lean towards liberalism/socialism when it comes to social issues but I lean more libertarian when it comes to economic issues.
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And unfortunately it has been co-opted by the right, like so many other things. They claimed the banner, and fly the flag, while embodying none of the beliefs. If you say you're a libertarian in America, people automatically assume you're Alt-Right, despite the fact that Noam Chomsky is a libertarian, or more accurately a libertarian socialist, or an anarcho-syndicalist.
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What's chomsky's solution for bears?
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Used to call myself Libertarian at one point. Then I grew up and realized most "Libertarians" are a group of morons who would get eaten by the wealthy if the world suddenly switched over to their ideal "Libertarian" society. You think the gap is bad between the rich and poor now? Let "Libertarian" ideals run amok for a decade....
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I kept misreading it as librarians which really confused me xD
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Libertarians are just Republicans wearing silly hats.
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The funniest part of this is the part where we assume libertarians are being honest and acting in good faith
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Libertarians are just Republicans who are embarrassed to admit it.
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I'm just going to post this article every time a libertarian post makes it to the front page now. Yes, libertarian taking over a New Hampshire town only to get overrun by feral bears will never stop being funny.
https://newrepublic.com/article/159662/libertarian-walks-into-bear-book-review-free-town-project
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US American Democrats aren't much better. I mean, sure, pro-choice, environmental policies, etc, but their economic policies? Haven't been great for the working class at least since Bill Clinton's era.
*It seems like I have to explain myself, I'm a socialist. I'm very left leaning, very pro regulations, it doesn't trickle down. Bill Clinton signed NAFTA, he was very openly Neoliberal. (And, btw, Don't Ask Don't Tell was also from his era). Obama, however charming, did little to bring the dignity of work back to the US, he instead played the respectability politics, pull yourself up by the bootstraps through higher education (which was not available for everyone).
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Our progressives still have to be fairly conservative to pull in the swing voters we need to keep batshit Republicans at bay. The Overton window has some fucking miles on it here in the US
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It's often a push and pull. The US "progressives" was pulled to the right, which pushed the "conservatives" further to the right. From the outside looking in, it seems that the new anti-abortion laws are proving to be unpopular, which might just pull conservatives back to the centre of this particular issue, and then the progressives can go further left again.
For activism, whichever side you're on, they must always ask for a lot right now, to get a little very soon. It goes both ways.
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The panda-rabbit should be a leopard.
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All political parties eat the common man. Republican Democrats all fucking bastards
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elites rather
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Yep
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It's funny because capital created big governments.
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This is my prediction. After the GOP crashes and burns, the Chris Christie/Mike Pence wing will do a hostile takeover of the Libertarian Party. They are already on the ballot in every state, so that would be easier than building a new party from scratch.
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Your optimism is unwarranted. 😥
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111 comments
Libertarians are just Republicans who don't understand how taxes work.
Some of the funniest shit in the world to me is watching a libertarian talk to pretty much anyone remotely competent in discussing policy and watching in real time as the libertarian reinvents things like taxes and liberal democracy trying to make their policy prescriptions make sense.
I had a "debate" with a libertarian once. It's annoying because they reply with: "it's the government's fault" or "free market can do it better" and citing examples just leans to their boring hypotheticals.
Workers rights, healthcare, regulations, public transit, public healthcare, mail, etc, it's boring how uninterested they are in how things actually work.
The argument is generally to favor non-coercive solutions to avoid centralized power breeding corruption (admittedly with a caveat that wealth can also create centralized power). I'm not clear how that would entail more taxes. Or exactly what you mean by "liberal democracy", which in the conventional use isn't something they disagree with?
Republicans don't even know how taxes work.
I always thought a Libertarian is a Republican who is trying to sleep with a Democrat - or vice versa.
I was a libertarian until I vacationed in a country where taxes were used on its people instead of it military.
(Gross over simplification for comedy before anyone comes at me for my political beliefs)
Pretty much. It doesn't take a whole lot of brains to figure out that if you are spewing out all these policies that are going to hurt people that cute coed isn't going to want to hang out with you. So, you lie about what you believe. You aren't mean nasty gop you are cool enlightened libertarian. You don't respect her intelligence enough to expect her to figure out what you really believe.
Quite a few years ago I came to the decision that if I had any opinion that I was embarrassed about, it was a sign that I should reevaluate it. That doesn't mean always going with the herd. It means that I was only going to defend embarrassing ideas that I am so sure about I am willing to take whatever society will throw at me for holding them.
I wouldn't say Democrat takes on libertarianism have ever been very good. Especially in recent years with the alt-right trying to occupy the middle space between "libertarian" and "Republican" and adding to the confusion.
You have a problem on two ends - corporate interests can get out of hand, pollute, monopolize, etc., and you want to rein that in somehow. This can be done via the market, since corps do need money to survive, but a lot of people don't care enough to make it happen. On the flip side, if you rely on government to just control everything and hope they'll act benevolently, there are huge risks - a government agency could be benign or beneficial, or it can turn into a machine for oppression and monopolization.
I feel like the Democrat takes never acknowledge the negatives of state control (at least unless it's something Republican-associated) and also never acknowledge there's a valid way to accomplish anything outside of the state. It seems like their answer is always to just throw state programs at everything. Well, we did try having the state run everything once...
I think it's because, as you laid out, the only 2 current options are market led control which isn't viable, and govt based which is viable but risky. Since it's the only viable option it gets the risks downplayed.
Democrats in the US are not as left-leaning as they make themselves out to be. I'd argue they moved further right economically a couple of decades ago, which pushed the Republicans even further right to the point of absurdity. What to you seem like the Democratic Party's attempt at "state controlling" things aren't actually that extreme, or that left-wing for that matter. Both parties are right-leaning. There's no center or center left in the US. Bernie tried to be center-left, but he was seen as too extreme.
Democrats constantly complain about government control. Defund the police ring a bell? How about all the wars over school district control? Or wasting money on the military?
Just because you lean towards moving power and resources from private to public sector doesn't mean you always always agree with the public sector.
If I support NASA does that mean I agree with every decision ever made by the Fed?
Libertarians are just not ready to admit to daddy that they too are a Conservative/Republican.
No they're not. That's an American Republican appropriation of an otherwise complex ideology. Do you think Chomsky is a Republican who doesn't understand taxes?