Could Microsoft destroy Linux gaming by using the windows store
Could Microsoft destroy Linux gaming by using the windows store
So as we know Windows Platform Apps and WinUI3 apps do not work on Linux, I keep wondering if Microsoft were to launch a new API let’s say direct X 15 but limit it to Windows Store Apps, and provided a way for the apps to be installed from other stores like steam could they in time kill modern Linux gaming.
Some people are making fun about this, but if you look at the history of the steam store and how Gabe is focusing so heavily on Linux, it is because he is concerned that Microsoft is going to shut down Win32 and he will be absolutely screwed.
Due to this, he is creating a safety net for himself and is pushing Linux hard as an alternative to Microsoft Windows so that he can not be so reliant on Microsoft and what they choose to do and not do. Specifically when it comes to win 32.
because he is concerned that Microsoft is going to shut down Win32
Got a source for this?
https://venturebeat.com/games/valves-gabe-newell-talks/
Some of what Gabe Newell said:
I think there’s a strong temptation to close the platform. If people look at what they can accomplish when they can limit competitors’ access to their platform, they say, “Wow, that’s really exciting.” Even some of the people who have open platforms, like Microsoft, get really excited by the idea that Netflix has to pay them rent in order to be on the Internet.
That’s not how we got here, and I don’t think that’s a very attractive future. So we’re looking at the platform, and up until now we’ve been a free rider. We’ve been able to benefit from everything that’s gone into the PC and the Internet. Now we have to start finding ways that we can continue to make sure there are open platforms. So that involves a couple of different things.
One, we’re trying to make sure that Linux thrives. Our perception is that one of the big problems holding Linux back is the absence of games. I think that a lot of people — in their thinking about platforms — don’t realize how critical games are as a consumer driver of purchases and usage. So we’re going to continue working with the Linux distribution guys, shipping Steam, shipping our games, and making it as easy as possible for anybody who’s engaged with us — putting their games on Steam and getting those running on Linux, as well. It’s a hedging strategy.
I think that Windows 8 is kind of a catastrophe for everybody in the PC space. I think that we’re going to lose some of the top-tier PC [original equipment manufacturers]. They’ll exit the market. I think margins are going to be destroyed for a bunch of people. If that’s true, it’s going to be a good idea to have alternatives to hedge against that eventuality. But when you start thinking about a platform, you have to address it.
This was quite a while ago and as you can imagine a lot of websites closed but I found some references to it here and there and I'm sure if you dig deeper you'll really find some good sources for yourself.
It's definitely a hedging strategy to invest in Linux so that they're not beholden to Microsoft.
https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=12517&cid=315125
And this one even has Tim Sweeney talking about it.
It's very old news and the search engine that don't really reward old articles too much, but it's out there.
Can you expand on this please, why is Gabe so worried about win32?,
I just posted a few links to the other person who responded to me and you can follow those and there is more detail there.
But basically if Microsoft were to try, which they did, try and move to their own app store, which removes win32, then all of Valve's games ( in the store) will no longer become relevant over time, on the Windows platform.
You don't just spend millions and millions and millions of dollars on Linux for no reason at all. It's not like he's a fanboy, he's a businessman, and he's protecting his business.
Win32 is what basically all non MS store apps use. It's a bit old and bloated.
@makingStuffForFun @skymtf Microsoft puts a big emphasis on backwards compatibility. I highly doubt they would do something that would cut off of much legacy software that runs on their system. Modern Windows is still honoring some limitations that originated in the MsDOS / Win 95~98 era...
They'd probably feel the wrath of the EU if they tried that, hopefully. Also, I doubt Steam under the current management would do that since it would shoot them in the foot because they'd be giving up and abandoning the popular enough Steam Deck at that point. I'm sure they've made more than enough money back from it to not want to shoot themselves in the foot.
Hopefully, yes. But I'm sure MS and some hardware manufacturers salivate at the thought of being able to create a completely locked down computer platform. I own neither, but aren't both iPhone and Playstation users locked into the manufacturers' respective stores? Those seems to be perfectly legal in the EU.
I don't think Playstation is unlocked when it comes to 3rd party stores, but I do remember a whole thing about Apple having to allow side loading of apps onto iPhones over there, so if that actually came true you would technically not be locked into the app store since you could side load another one. Not quite the same as being totally free to choose an app store, but close enough.
I bought Gears 4 from the Windows store - they sold it as an exclusive there. We are not under any threat from that.
The store is clunky, it works about 40% of the time, it constantly needs updates, and there's an install limit of 10 times before you have to buy it again. Even if they locked a tech like DirectX behind it developers wouldn't use it.
and there’s an install limit of 10 times before you have to buy it again.
lol, wut?
it's not true.
while there is a 10 device 'limit', that refers to how many linked devices you can have. you can remove one to add another. info and how to do that
I mentioned this in a lower comment but im also curious if they made an API allowing apps like steam to install WinUI3 apps would the same be true.
…and give the EU grounds to rip them a new one? Yes please! I so want to see corpos broken up in my lifetime.
I think the time to do that has already passed; the Steam Deck and even Linux gaming in general has really taken off, so it would impact far more people than before. In addition, I think the EU has started breathing down their neck and will pounce on them if they do anything so blatantly monopolistic.
So this hypothetical "Direct X 15" would be limited to only Windows 11 users outside of europe, and the games wouldn't be distributable through Steam. I can't see that being a good pitch to developers, even if DirectX15 was really good.
They also tried this waay back in Windows 8 with the Windows Store, and it honestly was a flop.
Never underestimate the fleeting willpower of gamers in the face of exclusivity deals. It's already captured a large section of the market (xbox consoles literally just run modified windows now) and will likely capture more. It's all about adding enough of a marketing spin on it until the average gamer stops caring, or concedes the value proposition or their morals in favor of something they want more (like a next gen Skyrim reboot or something idk 🤷♂️)
My hope is that the Microsoft store continues to be so shitty that users just reject any future attempts to do that.
That being said, if a large number of devs and users eventually adopted it, I would abandon gaming and stick with only native Linux games and vintage PC games that ran through Wine/Proton.
I refuse to use Windows for anything. And as much as I love gaming, I love my freedom, privacy, and rights as a user far more.
Aside from the reasons stated by other people in this thread, purely destroying something isn't really Microsoft's MO. Theirs is
Extend, Embrace, ExtinguishEmbrace, Extend, Extinguish.You got that the wrong way round. It's Embrace first, then Extend and Extinguish.
You're right. Whoops. Haha. Thanks, I fixed it.
IMO the Windows Store is why valve has invested heavily into gaming on Linux. Windows Store could easily become a huge Steam Store competitor if Microsoft were an effective company. So Valve wants to enable devices that don't run Windows. Numerous other benefits for something like the Steam Deck as well, but I'd bet we see another Steam Machine someday - probably after they convince more companies to support Linux
they already tried. remember uwp?
What the fuck are you talking about, Jesse?
There'd be no reason to. Anymore, I think they'd be more likely than that to try to port their Xbox game store to Linux than try to kill Linux gaming (though I doubt they'll do that either)
port their Xbox game store to Linux
Surely that wouldn't go anywhere even if they did do that
It might, if it worked well, but that's a big "if" and as I suggested in my original post I don't think it's particularly likely they'll do it either way
Look up Forza Motorsport, they already came up with some "Game Services" which make it unbootable on Linux
Hahahahahaha...
Sure.
@skymtf As Gaben said, piracy is a service problem, and the Windows store is a terrible service. If they did manage to kill Steam or Linux gaming as a whole, we'd see a massive spike in piracy.
