House passes antisemitism bill with broad bipartisan support amid campus arrests
House passes antisemitism bill with broad bipartisan support amid campus arrests
I really, really do not want to be lumped in with Zionists.
I don't agree at all with what's happened to the Palestinians at Israel's hands, and I have no trouble saying both Zionists and Israeli govt are wrong here.
I have never visited Israel for how toxic Zionists ironically sounded, considering our history in Germany, and I'm damn glad I never will. You're making us all look bad, you fucking idiots.
I don’t agree at all with what’s happened to the Palestinians at Israel’s hands, and I have no trouble saying both Zionists and Israeli govt are wrong here.
That right there, you are going to be engaging in hate speech if this bill becomes law.
Agreed. I'm Jewish but I'm American. I'm not Israeli. I don't support Israel's apartheid or its genocide. I've never cared much about Israel in terms of my "heritage" and I've never even been especially interested in visiting beyond wanting to see some of the archaeology.
I am so tired of being associated with Israel and it's Israel's fault.
So criticizing a country that has assassinated American citizens is now a crime. Fucking wow
A bill so bad that even the ADL is opposed to it.
Even Bernie is against this bill. ( He’s a Jew, btw.)
Saying someone is "a Jew" rather than saying that they're "Jewish" often comes off as vaguely antisemitic. I'm not saying that it's wrong, just something subtle I've noticed over the years.
Eh. I'm a Jew.
"even"?
The definition Democrats just voted for effectively equates Judaism with political Zionism.
If you have a shred of hope that we can turn the ship on the ongoing Israeli genocide, you should be 100% against this bill.
The definition Democrats just voted for effectively equates Judaism with political Zionism.
Where are you seeing that? This is what I see:
On 26 May 2016, the Plenary in Bucharest decided to:
“Adopt the following non-legally binding working definition of antisemitism :”
“Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities.”
Where are you seeing Zionism or Israel mentioned or protected?
The language I'm taking issue with is:
"Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g. by claiming that the existence of the State of Israel is a racist endeavor"
and I explain why its a problem here:
It’s in the part “Accompanying the IHRA Definition are 11 examples that “may serve as illustrations”.
This is probably the major one people would have issue with because you could get convicted of antisemitism for just speaking the truth.
Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.
What a rare W
The group adds that "rhetorical and physical manifestations" of antisemitism include such things as calling for the killing or harming of Jews or holding Jews collectively responsible for actions taken by Israel.
This is actually really good and a point I've tried to make to lukewarm success. The Israelis are not always in favor of the actions of their government much like we Americans aren't. Making this distinction is important so that we remember who we're actually angry at and who we demand action from regarding the clear genocide of the Palestinians.
Context: I'm an American Jew who is furious with Bibi's actions and the IDF.
This is not a W... This boils down to conflating zionists with all Jews. Under these definitions there is basically no differentiation anymore. Which is fine if you're a Zionist, but otherwise just lumps you in with them. It removes the distinction.
It's like saying because the German government was run by Nazis, that all Germans were Nazis, even those against the government.
There's a comment thread below yours that I'd love for you to read. This isn't a "hey fuck off" but an actual ask since one of the comments is very similar to my mindset of the bill and I believe we can have a pretty good convo once you read the mindset a bit.
I agree that it has potential for misuse, but read the thread and let's discuss (also it's bedtime here so expect a delay in response from me please)
This is a disaster of a bill. It's basically expanding any criticism of Israel to be considered antisemitism.
Live breakdown of its contents here:
This is a disaster of a bill. It’s basically expanding any criticism of Israel to be considered antisemitism.
I went to the link but its a livestream which at the time I tuned it didn't seem to be giving the context you're describing.
I'm looking at the text of the bill and it looks like the definition is locked to a specific timed definition:
"(1) means the definition of antisemitism adopted on May 26, 2016, by the IHRA, of which the United States is a member, which definition has been adopted by the Department of State;" source
Further the May 26, 2016 definition appears to be this:
On 26 May 2016, the Plenary in Bucharest decided to:
"Adopt the following non-legally binding working definition of antisemitism :"
“Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities.”
I see no mention of Israel being protected from any kind of criticism in either one of these. It looks like criticism of Israel isn't being restricted here.
What are you seeing that would contradict what I'm seeing the text of the law?
Def not a W. More like an L. Jews and Zionism are not one.
Sit at a passover with a Zionist and you’ll know they are terrible people holding Israel hostage.
I understand that you're trying to be helpful, but you're jewplaining my culture to me. Please stop.
I'm fully aware that zionism does not equal judaism .
I'm also aware of some of the more problematic parts of the bill, but none of it directly ties Judaism to Zionism. The closest we get is this section
“Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g. by claiming that the existence of the State of Israel is a racist endeavor”
but even that at the moment is a stretch. The right to self-determination and sovereignty are rights respected by most every country and the UN. What I see as problematic would be potential future law that would define the boundaries of the State of Israel to include Palestine.
Mind helping me see your perspective on what makes this an L?
Edit: I just realized that my attempt to shorthand does not equal got rekt.
@binthinkin
Hopefully you can forgive the typo and we can still discuss
House passes antisemetism bill so they can jail any one they don't like by labeling them antisemites, instead of just name-calling them racist, far-right, misogynist, sexist...
Democrats voted for genocide. Surprise.
It’s pretty interesting to see the influence laid bare.
I’m anti hate , so I’m not going to argue too much with the principle - but the timing is magic in terms of giving Israel cover during while they are committing war crimes.
Did politician just ban themselves?
Going through it, it seems that most of this is performative, as hate speech laws have more teeth then this bill.
What I don't like is the broad interpretation of antisemitism, however, I don't see how this law can hurt protesters. As most of the protests I've seen aren't including hateful message towards the Jewish population, but more of a criticism of colleges/officials donating to a genocide.
Unless... criticizing genocides are anti-semetic.... then all hail the god emperor.
If they’re still providing weapons to commit genocide, nothing has changed.
We are witnessing a modern day red scare
Close - the difference is that in this red scare we're the reds and McCarthy is neither a senator nor even an American... They're Isreali lobbyists.