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Absolutely no surprise there. When you keep the barrier to entry low and throw in an algorithm to increase “engagement” via outrage, the soup turns to poison quickly.
This is why every time someone says the Fediverse is “too confusing,” I just smile and nod. That attitude of petulant, lazy, self-imposed gatekeeping is what’s keeping the Fediverse a much nicer place to be.
If the “hot” and “active” filters continue to work as expected and bots get reasonably moderated or blocked, I don’t even think Lemmy needs a high barrier to entry or petulance. The most important thing is to not optimize any recommendation or sorting algorithm on session duration, ads seen before closing session, and revenue per user.
This is so true and people seem to have a really hard time seeing this. The cultures on other social sites are far more manufactured than we'd like to believe. I think the human driven systems of Lemmy and Mastodon are brilliant but the true killer feature of the fediverse is going to be an open content recommendation algorithm. A collectively developed non-profit driven algorithm would undoubtedly be better at surfacing positive impact content than either system.
Can we use ai to judge emotional content of threads so I can get recommendations for threads where people are relaxed and happy?
Actually yes and I don’t think it’s a bad idea. Sentiment analysis is not a hard task nowadays. If overused the site would become a bunch of artificial positivity, but I think there could be a place for this. Could be part of a mod toolkit too.
I definitely don't think something like that should be used to only show one emotion though. If AI were used to control content based on how it makes people feel it should try to balance, not control how we feel. Give us an equal amount of everything.
It's not good to cloak ourselves in only feelgood stories and lies that sound nice and ignore all the bad stuff just because an algorithm wants us to feel nice and cozy. If no one cares about the bad stuff, the bad stuff gets worse.
I'd imagine if it uses the sentiment as a weight but not a gate when selecting what content to boost that would probably provide a good balance. Especially if you get some controls to adjust the weights in the settings panel
Unironically, yes absolutely.
Well then, I unironically want that!
Too much arguing in discussion forums and not enough relaxed fun.
Completely agree that this is where the really exciting potential is, but equally a potential for misuse as algo development will be a black box to most.
Funny enough Hot filtering is currently bugged on small instances.
Yesterday it was bugged on world, too. I'd keep hitting next page and seeing half of the same things on every page. It's working better today though.
It's been noted on the GitHub. It seems the bug is amplified on small instances. I'll regularly get posts from two weeks ago with no comments on the top of All/Hot when using this account.
It's like IRC. Just zany enough to keep out the riff raff.
Oh the IRC days, what a time
/slap speaker_hat
*Veltoss slaps speaker_hat around with a large trout.
Veltoss (~user@fastinternet-1b-3c-115.com) has joined
This just awakened some repressed IRC memories I didn't know I had.
You have been kicked from #Lemmy.
IRC is hugely flawed but also, I miss it. Could we have a federated discord? It'd basically be irc but easier to find stuff right?
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that what Matrix is?
All matrix is to me is a classic late nineties action sci fi movie.
The Matrix but they use the Matrix protocol on a The Matrix themed Matrix IRC channel talking about talking about The Matrix in the Matrix protocol in a The Matrix themed Matrix IRC channel (woops sorry that is the Matrix 2 I think my bad)
There's also a way to add matrix usernames to Lemmy accounts, so it's possible to make an app that ties the two together. Is that a feature people would care about?
Likely no
Man I'd love that. I feel like we will soon honestly. I just hope the lemmy/Kbin apps bring these other federated projects inside, so we can do it all on one app too.
matrix.org is basically IRC 2.0. It's federated and has a lot of cool clients.
Wasn't IRC itself pretty much federated, just maybe not calling it that yet? Networked I think they called it. You'd have a bunch of servers in a network and users could join channels and chat with users on other networks. Every now and then you'd get a server split where some subset of servers would lose connection with the rest and a bunch of people would all leave the channel at once. Then, it would resolve, and they'd come flooding back in.
Yes. For example, you'd have a collection of servers that federated to create EFnet. DaLnet, etc. Joining any of those servers would get you onto that federated network. You could be banned from one server but you could always choose another to still get into the same network. And yes, netsplits happened. A lot.
My first instinct would be to say, "This is the 21st century, learn to use a damn computer already!" But then I think of the long term and WANT people to think it's too hard to join Mastodon or Kbin, just to keep the average IQ of these sites above room temperature.
IMO if technical difficulty is the filter, it would actually only select for people good at computers. There are otherwise dumb, shallow people who are good at tech.
(I'm not saying its difficult using lemmy, just replying to the idea in general)
Absolutely agree. I love the high barrier to entry and how it has kept the conversations (for the most part) more substantial.
I know I'm an old school techie, but was there really a high entry bar for lemmy compared to say twitter or Instagram? I honestly don't know, other than r3dd!t the last social media I signed up for was what? Facebook well over a decade ago?
If the few steps it took to make a user name, pick an instance, and then get my head around the fact that I had to also join any instance I wanted to respond to, is enough to keep the unwashed internet masses out, well, they are just even dumber than I already thought.
Non-techy guy here. I read an infograohic and made an account. 0 issues whatsoever. And the infographic was just to help me understand how it works. You don't really need to understand lemmy to interact with it
get my head around the fact that I had to also join any instance I wanted to respond to
Wait. What? Why are you doing that?
Because stating a wrong fact is the fastest way to get the right answer?
So, if I have an account on one instance, and I want to login / reply to another, how do i do that. I'm using the liftoff app.
I take it I shouldn't have more than one instance login? Don't worry, at this point I've only got two, it really didn't seem right when I was making the second one.
Yeah I dove into Lemmy and Mastadon with very little research and even Mastodon with its "pick an instance you like first" step was extremely easy. I ended up on smaller instances for both and honestly I like it. Best part is, if you feel some FOMO either make another account on another instance or in the case of Mastadon export your account and migrate it to the new instance
It's concerning just how many people can't be bothered to spend 5 minutes to pick an instance... Keeps it nicer for us though
I don't really think it's fair to pretend that, before two weeks ago, anyone under god had any idea what an instance was unless they were already heavily tech-oriented.
It took me hours of trying to read through not-my-kind-of-jargon to understand what the hell I was looking at and what kind of consequences that unexplained choice would have, and it really seems like a good number of users that initially struggled forget the learning curve extremely quickly the moment they're over it.
It took me hours of trying to read through not-my-kind-of-jargon to understand
I started off going down that road of trying to understand it, but my laziness and impatience got in the way and said "just start using it and you'll work it out." And that's exactly what happened for me. In a way, the explanations made it all sound much more confusing than it really is. Sometimes you just gotta take a deep breath and dive in.
Same. I signed up for the first instance someone mentioned positively. Seems fine, only about 5 minutes of research invested
Honestly, you're right, and I think the analysis paralysis that the fediverse immediately presents isn't really helped by the fact I'm just generally a neurotic person. Wanting/NEEDING to understand how every aspect of something works and why lends itself really well to things like linguistics and biology, but I feel bothered when I skip the tutorial in a game I already know. What if I missed something and I'll never be able to figure out how buttons work.
Don't worry, I hear ya! I'm currently 4.9 hours in on my first run of the story game, Detroit. People in the reviews say it is a short game and they have less than 3 hours playtime ... but I don't wanna miss any narrative or clues! haha!
I joined Mastadon in December and that's when I first tried to understand it all. I researched a server to join and it was right confusing ... what if I picked the wrong one? Then I pretty much abandoned the account because I didn't understand how to stay on my own server while browsing around (also didn't help that I'd never used Twitter either, so I didn't actually know what I sposed to be doing lol).
Then the whole reddit debacle happened and I signed up for a Lemmy & Kbin. And there was all the jargon again. But I think because I was actually jumping ship from reddit, this time I wanted my move to have staying power. So it was unusual for me to "skip the tutorial" but I was getting so frustrated with the jargon, while I could see others were already having conversations. And it was through the participation that the jargon finally defined itself. I even use my mastodon now, as well!
Oh, I never realized the storylines in Detroit were that short. I'm exactly like you, and I've also found that the more games I play at once, the less I enjoy any of them. So my hands are a bit tied in terms of backlog and that one's been on the backburner for...years, now that I think of it. But That bumps it up my list considerably if I can 100% it in like 3 days.
I was very close to giving the fuck up initially, though. You know what the biggest encouragement was when I was signing up? When I was looking through the comments on kbin, someone said all the hoops would keep the idiots out, and I will put in a _lot _ more energy if it means both showing off and being where the idiots aren't. I'd say having a barrier there really has done some good for the overall quality (for now), but the people claiming it's good to make sign-ups as hard as possible are sometimes the same people claiming there isn't a barrier at all, and it comes off as very strange elitism.
Reading the explanations and advice people were giving to each other made a whole lot more sense than anything the internet was handing me, but even some of that could be head-scratching, and hands-on is probably the best way to go. Not without its dangers. I still think I got incredibly lucky to end up on an instance I like this much. Imagine having admiration for the dev for once.
I never realized the storylines in Detroit were that short.
quick Google search tells me average play-thru time is 12hrs and completionist is 32hrs, so I dunno what I was looking at. I'm 5hours in, so it remains to be seen whether it's gonna take me 32hours or 64hours minimum. 🤣 You'll have to forgive me, it's the steam sale so I've been looking at lots of games. Not that I need any more because I've probably only ever touched a quarter of my library, if that!
someone said all the hoops would keep the idiots out,
Yeah I liked that take as well. That layer of jargon really is a fantastic filter.
There was no learning curve for me. I randomly picked an instance LMFAO!
It was a case of: Lemmy.ml isn't accepting new users atm BeeHaw requires me to tell them why I'm a good user So does this other instance... Why do I have to justify myself!? Hey, Lemmy.world let's me just sign up! Perfect!
And that was how I chose an instance. Thank you for joining story got with Valek
Decision paralysis is real even for stupid things. Like, “what are the implications if I pick the wrong instance?” Was something that made me put off finishing signing up for mastodon and I’m not embarrassed to admit it. Acting like it’s trivial isn’t helpful to anyone even if it was trivial or you
Oh you're one of those just looking for a reason to be pissy. I wasn't trying to be helpful to anyone, I was simply sharing my experience. Touch grass
Probably some truth there. It’s probably a bit of feeling defensive as well
Sorry if I was too froggy
Same here. I had no idea what picking an insurance meant in terms of the amount of people, communities, level of engagement, etc.
I could have picked one of the more toxic communities that have been defederated and my experience of lemmy would have been much worse
Yeah decision paralysis definitely delayed my joining any ActivityPub based sites, but really most of what it affects is stuff that wont matter until you've spent enough time on the platform to understand the difference to begin with
I've been on mastodon for years so I knew :p
I've been explaining it like email. There's no email webpage you go to to create an account. It's just a protocall a bunch of people have agreed to use, so you go to one of them and you create an address. I also think your username in the fediverse should be called an address too, but I don't think that'll catch on. It makes it a lot easier to explain, because everyone can use email, even the most tech illiterate people.
I’ve been explaining it like email
Maybe I'm setting the bar too low but a lot of people have no clue if their emailing, texting or messaging. They just know that their phone pings and they can either reply or not. I learned this when I worked support for a smartphone manufacturer
Well said! A high barrier to entry, and a low barrier to exit working as intended. Let's enjoy the good times while they last.
Its not even a high barrier. You just have to choose an instance from a list.
Well, it's not easy. I fell it's like choosing a Linux distro to use.
Yeah that's why everyone gravitates to the most popular one, like Hannah Montana Linux.
Hannah Montana Linux
"Hannah Montana is considered fast, stable, and powerful by most users".
Ok, Lemmy has officially gotten my first "ok now people are looking at me" laugh.
I mean, it's basically a theme pack on top of Kubuntu, so it's not wrong.
Just the objectively most beautiful piece of software ever made.
This this this. The fediverse being "confusing" keeps the idiots, boomers, trolls, and overall horrible people away. Having to learn something new is too much for those people. Lemmy/Mastodon and so on are "nerd" platforms, and I really like it that way.
Easy on the boomer stuff. You just lumped "horrible people" into the same group as regular people that happen to have lived more years than you. If you are looking for a "nerd" platform, you'll do well to remember that there are a ton of extremely nerdy boomers out there and you just helped turn the soup to poison for them
If extra layer of "difficulty" is introduced by giving the users the choice of an instance is enough to keep them away, then I'm all for it.
It just needs to be easier for the ones that managed to figure it all out (better apps, stability, UI/UX, and QOL updates)
IMO the only algorithm I'll accept for lemmy/kbin is slightly faster "expiration" for posts, sometimes some posts stay too long on my frontpage.
Self imposed gatekeeping. Damn that's real