capitalism ruins everything around me

If your community knowingly depends on slavery then your community probably deserves to collapse

Not community. Economy.
Slavery, Prison labour, migrant labour that you can totally rip off and not pay, and lastly child labour. That's what's propping up the economy at this point..
Do you think the workers of the community can compete on wages with literal slaves? Slavery destroys working people, even those who are "free".

Using underpaid prison labor to deny people access to well-paying jobs, forcing more people into difficult situations.

Which again raises crime, which in turn raises the amount of underpaid prison labor.
- See, the system works. Well, not for us.

This is not a meme…

Once you know how and why was the private prisons created or operate and “earn” their money you would be sad if not depressed…

I recommend watching a documentary on this topic.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but you should really at least name a documentary and share some insight that it brings.
what emoji did you use at the end there it's blank to me
- ~~I don't see one at the end of their comment, but they have a cherry blossom at the end of their display name if that's what you meant?~~
  (not what you meant!)
Your mom's not a meme
- Your meme's not a mom
- Some moms are memes.

So they are literally forced labour camps? How can anyone in the US still complain about Russia? (Just as a disclaimer, this is not a defence of Russia. I think the conditions there are terrible, but the US doesn't seem far behind, if at all)

The US has way better propaganda - the marketing strategies invented in the 60s by the nephew of Freud were put to very good use at bypassing people's reasoning and not just at making them feel needs, fears, and short-term endorphine jolts related to products and services being sold.
Also the US has way better circus and more bread than Russia.
Cuz different rule sets apply to different parts of the world. That and the clever naming scheme the US usually applies to make things sound not as bad or marginably better than they actually are.
- And it seems to have worked on you too since you agreed above that it actually has nothing to do with capitalism.
Russia's actively committing genocide and threatens nuclear war against anyone who directly intervenes, so there's that.
I agree with you though. The U.S. is just a third world country with a nice coat of paint at this point.
- And in Russia, they toss people in prison for disagreeing with the state, so there's that.
- Russia is a terrible place as is, but the US is too.
  Regarding the 3rd world country: That is totally true.
IIRC, unless you're lucky enough to have someone outside of jail putting money into your commissary, you kind of have to if you want half decent living conditions.
Want more shampoo or feminine hygiene products? You have to buy them. Want more food than you were alotted? You have to buy it. It even includes things like toothpaste.
- It's so horrifically abusable too. You can easily lose the "privilege" of slave labor just because someone felt like it or didn't like your face.
Y'all are making some weird arguments based on not much.
Let's have a look at TB as a marker for prison population health. It will exist for a long time without killing someone and will spread quickly in poor conditions.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(21)00049-9/fulltext
Now I accept the argument on relative abundance of TB and would welcome an alternative marker.
Prison colonies in Russia are indeed worse than in USA. People die from sickness and malnutrition there who'd come there healthy. And, of course, because of beatings with broken bones etc which somehow nobody knows about until the prisoner dies.
Things like rape and unofficial hierarchy seem to exist in US prisons too, but in general seems just uncomparable.
- But people die due to e.g. bad ventilation, missing cooling and failing disease control in the US too.
  Just have a look at how great the US prison systems have handled Covid.
  The mortality in US prisons is ~40% than in the general population, and that is not counting 2020, where it was ~60% higher.

Pretty much exact argument much of the south made about ending slavery before the american civil war happened..

Also frequently hear the same argument made for any change to the thoroughly corrupt healthcare scheme in the U.S.
That any form of socialized medicine would collapse the insurance industries putting thousands out of work and damaging stock portfolios and retirement accounts that may have invested in such. But hey, it's totally ok to bankrupt tons of citizens and enslave ill folks to lousy jobs because they can't afford to lose employment-tied insurance that would never be affordable as an individual.
- Anything good for is but not thier bottom line: OH HEAVENS NO, THE EXPENSE!
  Anything they can profit from: this is essential.
It's not true then, it's not true now.
Slaves were already barely profitable compared to paid labor before the civil war, and ~~slave labour~~ prison labour is only profitable because it's massively subsidized by the US government.
- Same is actually true for most fossil fuel production now - only has profits because of subsidizing.
  The folks profiting spend part of that profit to pay for politicians to continue the cycle.

Translation: "But... muh slaves!"

That sounds an awful fucking lot like some of the rationale the confederates used around the time of the civil war.

Yeah, I thought that reasoning sounded familiar!

So it's just "we can't abolish slavery because it will hurt all the poor slave-owners" but modernized.

I would argue that it's not even modernized. It's just the same argument.
- Right-wing ideology consists out of a very limited selection of lies used to justify the power and privilege of a small elite - they vary the wording on it to suit a new target audience, but it's always the same lies. There is nothing Ben Shapiro can say that I didn't hear Apartheid-ideologues say back in the 80s - it's just the surface details that vary. It's pretty much the only thing there is to right-wing politics, really.
It's the same argument. These people are enslaved. The 13th amendment abolished slavery "except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted".

The very idea that we have legal, Constitutional slavery still in the US and most people don't know or care is genuinely disturbing.

Oh boy wait until you hear about what the chocolate/coffee and mining industries are doing!
Also the idea that there are haves and have-nots in prison royally pisses me off. Like, they're already prisoners. Aren't we supposed to be helping them become productive in society? Yet they're not even treated equally in a god damn prison it's actually disgusting how blatantly predatory our legal system is. Many people aren't even "lucky" enough to work for countless bs reasons. It's so gross.
- It definitely is. Prisoners are at the mercy of the state more than anyone else, so their treatment at the hands of the state should be the biggest offense when it comes to civil rights. But here we are, where people actively root for prisoner mistreatment just to “teach them a lesson”. When at the very least results should show them that this mistreatment does not actually bring any type of rehabilitation or deterrent to crime.

Translation: Slavery has always been legal in the US.

To be fair this is hardly a problem unique to western capitalism. Gulag labor in the USSR was widely acknowledged and documented. And there are likewise credible accusations of forced labor (and much worse) in China as well. It's bad in every case, and intellectually honest observers would condemn this practice in every instance.
This isn't capitalism or communism - it's an autocracy and human rights issue. The places with the best criminal justice outcomes these days are generally the "third way socialism" eg Scandinavian model countries which have a blended version of regulated capitalism and wealth redistribution.
- To be fair this is hardly a problem unique to western capitalism.
  The majority of western capitalist countries DON'T have legal slave labour in their prison system (or anywhere). I'm pretty sure it's actually only the USA
- It's the state using the labor of people for its own profit and the profit of its cronies. Capitalism has nothing to do with it.
- in the USSR was widely acknowledged
  What do you mean was? It still is.

Huh. So US would collapse without slave labour?

Well, actually, yes. Or without migrant labour which they are losing hence the child labour law issues recently. Study harder. You will get it.
- Yeah your last comments seem like you have a chip on your shoulder.
- Why so combative?
- Your info is right, but the last two sentences are uncalled for.
Btw, https://mkorostoff.github.io/incarceration-in-real-numbers/

Sounds like slavery with extra steps.

Sounds like pure slavery:
catch someone
take away their freedom
force them to work
- Oh, there's a trial and some other stuff. There are extra steps. Still slavery, though.

Private prisons? Seriously, Amurica?

Sounds like slavery with extra steps, cuz it is.
We have them in Australia too
- another police state. They'll come to europe soon eough.

Oh no, is your community relying on slave labor because capitalism deems it not efficient enough to exist? Boo hoo so sad, better vote pro-slaver again next election, they will surely fix the problem this term.

Guys but China is the bad one!!%(+%!

There can be 2 bad guys.
- True, they're all bad lets focus on the countries we live in.
They are bad, yes.

Not really, since slavery is the ultimate expression of underregulated capitalism.
If you think American corporations don't exploit penal slavery and wouldn't be doing outright chattel slavery if they were allowed to, you're just too naive.
- The only thing capitalism loves more than slavery is prison labour. Next up 'undocumented' labour that can be easily exploited. What's next? Oh yes. Child labour.
  Perfect system
- I wrote it's not wrong but the criticism is wrongly addressed. What you wrote is known and that's why regulations exit. And still we have this kind of slavery. Don't give your regulators a pass here.
I'm not seeing how it's a stretch to criticize capitalism when someone says they don't want to get rid of slavery because "think of the economy!"
- @EnsignCrab @Dnn "Who would do these jobs if people possibly wrongfully convicted weren't forced to do these jobs?"
It doesn't get much more Capitalist than maximizing profitability by minimizing manpower expenses and there really is nothing in the Capitalist ideology about the methods of doing so which involve the use of force to make people work for free not being allowed, quite the contrary (it's all about how businesses should be free, not people)
Capitalism has nothing at all about Morality, which is something that always came from outside it, be it traditional Conservative Family Values and Religion or the various The Greatest Good For The Greatest Number theories from the left (some genuine, others hypocrite).
The Everybody For Themselves that Capitalism promotes is actually the moral of the Sociopath (in the Psychology sense of zero consideration for others, not in the movie sense of evil-doing for the pleasure of it which is ridiculously off).
Slavery is a strict outcome of unregulated capitalism. That's literally where "classical" slavery originated. Money gave slavers power, and they used that power to abduct people into slavery which made the slavers money.
Better veiled versions of that plopped up all through the centuries past slavery (and before that) as well. Factory towns were exactly that as well. You worked in the factory/mine and instead of money you received company vouchers as income. These vouchers you could only spend in the company shops and company housing. So if you tried to leave the company, you had nothing. And since they could essentially charge you whatever they wanted, they'd make sure you earned less than what you needed to survive, so that you'd rack up debts while working there. So if you left, you were forced to pay your debts, and if you couldn't (and you really couldn't in most cases), you'd just go to prison, and be forced to work in the mine/factory anyway.
Completely unregulated capitalist sectors (e.g. the mafia) use the same exact system to this day.
Have, for example, a look at human trafficing rings.
My thoughts as well.
lmfao, I can't even imagine the mental gymnastics you have to do to separate the two.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison%E2%80%93industrialcomplex

But no, we can't plan out and try out a new or better system, because we might hurt poor old capitalism's feelings. Won't somebody think of the billionaires?

Did you intend to post this on a meme c/? Seems like the wrong place

Using the same excuse slave owners in 1860 used isn't a good look...

If that community wants to keep those lucrative prison jobs they need to step up and get incarcerated more.

This doesn’t have to be on or off. Don’t think “shut down”, think “draw down over time”. So instead of an immediate collapse, you get improvement over time.

Should they have "drawn down" slavery over time too last time around, to make it easier for their enslavers to adjust?
- I mean, that's what they did in fact. Same with serfdom in Russia. Official slavery was ended, but in fact there would be plantations with workers being mostly black and being paid almost nothing.
- Same with the 3rd reich. Draw down the butchering so the butchers can do it just a little longer?

That's why I'm never letting my kids move out. I too enjoy the benefits of slave labor

Wonder how many workers in those towns lose their jobs to slave labor from prisons, blame it on immigrants, and vote for demagogues

Thank goodness I had to say the pledge every day in school or I might have forgotten that we actually have liberty and justice for all while reading this

Does he think Arizonans wouldn't like those jobs for decent pay?

But think of the shareholders!

My brain interpreted the post title being sung to the tune of CREAM by Wu-Tang

I believe that was the intent.
- Oh cool! I'm not great at interpreting intent like that, thanks

Starting to wonder why Russia doesn't have them.

You don't need to dress up your slave labour as "prison" when you can just have out and open slave labour.
Pretty lame deflection

if they'd collapse without it then good riddance

That's slavery/indentured servitude forcing someone into a contract. How is that Adam Smith capitalism? It's just old school wealthy upper class exploiting people.

We call that bonded servitude of which slavery is a subset.

If your business depends on underpaid labor to profit (including slave labor or bonded servitude) then your business model sucks, and your business should fail.

And if you think you should be allowed to underpay your workers to keep your business afloat, then you're an immoral capitalist and you should be ashamed.

what would happen if we cut out the middle man that's making a shit ton of money on this?

State prisons are not part of "capitalism".

If you mean "capitalism+slavery", then yes, this is known to cause problems, hence all the civil rights efforts since Renaissance to make citizens roughly equal (even cut aristocracy a bit) and every resident a citizen.

I am very smart dot jpg
- Just not allowing myself to behave like an envious little punk. I do see problems with the existing social systems, it's just that being prevented from robbing those who have more is not a problem. It's a very good design feature.
I take solace in your downvotes that your opinions are unpopular and wrong and as such no one believes you. Look on the plus side, your brown nose covered in poo will protect you from the sun.
- unpopular
  Irrelevant obviously.
  wrong
  Doesn't follow from downvotes. It's obvious, again. Votes don't support statements.
  no one believes you
  Irrelevant, unless my goal was to make someone believe into something. It wasn't.
  Also there's no poo anywhere around me and it's raining, which is quite pleasant after such heat. But thank you for your good wishes.

Prisoners deserve everything they get to them.

That's an unhelpful way to think about criminal justice. If the number 1 priority is to reduce crime and increase safety, the criminal justice system should focus on rehabilitation instead of just throwing them in shitty gang-run prisons for revenge or whatever. That helps nobody and destabilizes society.
- Especially when "lock 'em up and treat 'em like shit" usually leads to more crime and "lock 'em up and throw away the key" leads to large prison populations that are long past their tendency to cause trouble.
Do you think all prisoners are guilty?
Do you believe all crimes (including non violent ones) should be punished equally with "deserving everything they get to them?
All people without the ability to process issues in shades of grey instead of black and white should think for like 5 seconds before they continue to embarrass themselves on the internet
Shit... Grow a conscious please... Prisons are supposed to be for rehabilitation, not slavery.
What an absolutely horrible mindset you must be in all the fucking time to think that someone deserves, at any point in time in their lifetime no matter what they've done, to be a fucking slave.

Prisons and terms of incarceration are managed by the government and not by free market. This critique should be addressed to the legislature and not to capitalism.

You obviously know nothing about capitalism
You think 'government' is separate from the capitalist class? Talk to Nancy Pelosi and maybe I dunno read something outside of the mainstream propaganda you're being fed? I know how condescending that sound and apologize in advance but my internet friend you need better data
- They are not separate and that is the problem. That separates "crony capitalism" or "corporationism" from "free market capitalism".
  Either way, the critique is to be addressed to the legislature. It is the government that ultimately allows for such pathological situation to exist.
jeez, you people are wilfully ignorant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison%E2%80%93industrialcomplex
What exactly do you think a private prison is, buddy?

Is this sarcasm or are you just a horrible person?
Lmfao at the mental gymnastics you're using to make yourself feel better about slavery, as if rapists go to jail...
What an utterly despicable person you are, what the hell is this bullshit.
Are you implying that everyone with a prison sentence is a rapist who should be worked to death? ooof. big ooof
This sentiment would only apply to fictional people in fairytales. I.e. criminals break laws because they are themselves bad and good honest people would never require being imprisoned in the first place. In this hypothetical good/evil then maximum punishment for the evil makes sense. The problem is that real people are more complex than that and so the punishment you are proposing is not proportional to the crimes committed. I know its easier to not have to consider all the variables in every case and just proclaim "to hell with them all!" and call it a day but I hope that we are all not so desperate that we can't take the time to think about the issues and make a balanced (but more complex) opinion.
If genuine, you are drunk on schadenfreude.
All legal systems are inherently unjust and incapable of actually holding evil people responsible for their actions. Most people in jail don't actually belong in there and, quite frankly, it'd be far more humane to kill anyone who actually does than to use them to keep the institution of slavery going.
Ever watched the Shawshank redemption?