196 @lemmy.blahaj.zone wrenchmonkey @lemmy.blahaj.zone 4mo ago

reading the books rule

for the record, like almost all big classic sci-fi, these books (dune) are remarkably bigoted and reductive. i still like space stories and political intrigue tho.

alt text: Trade Offer from Sand Worm Leto Atreides. You receive: 4000 years of planet bound subjugation. Spice, eventually. Famine. Sex ninjas from outer space. Golden Path... I recieve: Like 70 something Duncan Idahos. Gentle Hwi.

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Leto II was trying to free humanity from the tyranny of prescience. It took a 4000 year selective breeding program to produce Siona who was invisible to the future. It was the undoing of the Golden Path of Paul Muad'dib.
This book was where the series completely left the rails for me. So fucking bizarre.
- Yeah, later books seem like Frank Herbert was way too obsessed with sex. The idea of Honored Maitres as using sex to control humans seemed pretty misogynistic, even at the time (yes, eventually there was a guy, too). Still, I think the whole “put humanity in a pressure cooker so they explode outwards when the lid is gone” concept was pretty thought-provoking. Also the Siona project; if prescience is a real thing in that universe, it can be studied and understood, then weaponized. How do you defend against an enemy that knows where and when you’ll be?
  
  I'm reading Chapterhouse right now and my God Frank has some real sexual issues doesn't he? I thought the Idaho gholas in God-Emperor were weird enough.
  
  Still, as a critique on power structures, Dune as a whole is phenomenal
  
  It gets overlooked today, but Barron Harkonnen is a gay stereotype. Overlooked because gay men being hyperviolent is a stereotype that's long died out, but it was a thing.
  
  Dune starts in a weird place and it gets weirder as it goes.
- Absolutely but it still kinda fits with the story.
  
  Mankind, all the eggs in one basket.
  
  Some evil is coming… and mankind just tends to want to congregate
  
  So… what they need is a truly horrible despot whose influence and power is so absolute that once they’re free of him they’ll disperse and never look back.
  
  So.. yeah… it makes a kind of odd sense… still bonkers though
  
  Yes, “teach them a lesson they’ll feel in their bones.” Although I thought the focus of being a despot, along with the Scattering, was to teach a humanity a lesson about avoiding the “Pharaonic Disease”; to reject authoritarians.
- I'm gonna try reading it while on shrooms to see if it makes more sense
  
  Frank would probably approve of this. Although I'm not sure how much you can really read while on shrooms.
Foundation by isaac asimov is pretty solid for its time and mostly holds up today
- I liked it but there's two main issues IMO
  
  Leans really heavily into the "If you're smart you should get to do whatever you want"
  
  A complete lack of women characters which is particularly telling combined with point 1
  
  It's almost the definitive novel of classic Science Fiction, and I mean that in a lot of good and bad ways.
  
  Interesting, i havent read it yet but i'd read about the plot generally, what people thought about it, and what kind of person the author was. I could definitely see how these would manifest in his writing based on what i've read. Im still gonna read it bc the premise is fascinating but im glad im going into it with a more critical mind. Thanks for sharing your thoughts :)
  
  Even his male characters were paper thin. IA was more into how the sci-fi ideas affected everyone than individual characters.
  
  I have only watched the Apple TV show and the main character is a woman. I’d have never known lol.
Don't forget trees tho, that was a pretty big deal
!dunememes@lemmy.blahaj.zone
Thought it was the worm from Freaked, not Dune.

You receive: Anything you want

I receive: Having my ass wiped.

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