Swap these please

Scooters go where people walk... trucks usually don't

Whew! It’s a good thing trucks never go through cross walks or across curb cuts to get into parking lots and drive throughs.
The only reason people ride scooters on the sidewalks is because our infrastructure is severely lacking and you get stuck “sharing” a lane with a 6000+lb truck.
- You aren’t wrong and neither are they.
- across curb cuts to get into parking lots and drive throughs.
  Generally not faster than scooter speed anyway though.
- And they don't like to share. I had to flip off a driver for almost running me over today
Damn. Wish there was a way to have separate lanes or something
- Still, bike lanes have a speed limit of 25 km/h where I live
Not in my city. It is illegal for motorized vehicles of any kind to travel on sidewalks.
- It's illegal here as well, they just do it anyways
People are forbidden from going where the trucks go... or that seems to be the popularly agreed upon arrangement.
Rly?
- Key word being "usually"

Is it just me, or does this thread feel unusually hostile towards scooters for being in fuckcars?

Right? The scooters are only in the sidewalks because the cars actively make the roads dangerous for them. But here we are in a place that supposedly hates cars defending them against a very useful replacement for a huge amount of people.
- My city has a pretty good protected bike lane network, and a result is you rarely see scooters or bikes on the sidewalks (at least in the parts of town with good protected bike lanes). Instead, you get lots of scooters and bikes zipping safely by without endangering pedestrians. At least on my route to work, I'm about 90% sure there are more commuters in the bike lanes than cars on the road, despite the cars getting 90+% of the road space.
They need the same infrastructure that bicycles and have gotten popular really fast. Since the infrastructure cannot accomodate them (no bike lane), the scotters become a nuisance for everyone.
\ With proper infrastructure though (cycling lanes and parking spots) they are fine. (Some might argue about users not following the rules, I'd say, sometimes you can't respect the rules because the street is shit).
\
\ Also private companies monopolising public space, not cool. (that one I still stand by, and I hope they pay "rent" that goes towards maintaining the roads.)
- That and the assholes who just dump them in the middle of what little infrastructure we do have. Around here they are constantly blocking sidewalk, bike lanes, and mixed use paths.
it's so fascinating how people absolutely lose their minds over e-scooters, and these are people who shit on drivers for doing the exact same thing to cyclists!
- Yeah I hate these scooters even with good infrastructure (Germany) people still can't stop themselves from basically trying to run you over and when they are not in use they are usually left in a place (sidewalks, pedestrian paths etc) that blocks pedestrian traffic. Not to mention the people taking shitload of this stuff into the public transport and making it even more crowded.
  Never had a driving license, can't be bothered with it when public transport gets the job done.
Sorry about your circle jerk
Probably because these scooters compete with bikes for the space thats left over.
- no they don't, what kind of logic is that? By that logic cyclists should hate other cyclists too.
  More people using bike infrastructure is great, it makes it visible and increases the likelihood of more money being spent on it.
- If there's not enough space in the bike lane for bikes and scooters, that's only a reason to build more and bigger bike lanes.

One of these share footpaths with pedestrians. The other two have to use their own dedicated pathways.

One of these
Oh, really?
- Yeah, in general. Cars are not allowed to drive on sidewalks under most if not all circumstances. The point is that e-scooters have their restrictions for a reason, regardless of any whataboutism relating to cars. We want walkable cites, not e-scootable.
  No clue what that street sigh means, but I guess it's supposed to signify a shared space?
E-scooters shouldn't be sharing the footpath, they should be in the cycle lane with other similar vehicles.
- If they exist. I took a multi mile bike ride today and aside from the occasional bike gutter there were none
More like they ban pedestrians from their pathways.

Only one of these is often ridden on footpaths and walking areas.

The limit makes sense.

Another bullshit cars are evil post that just ignore facts and reality.

Cars can somewhat be evil but if you want to capture the attention of people you've go to post well considered arguments.

Not crap like this.

These devices probably cause < .1% of fatal pedestrian accidents and are electronically speed-limited, meanwhile for the device that causes 99% you put the responsibility of keeping speeds safe in the hands of individuals ranging from considerate over careless to outright methheads.
is often ridden on footpaths and walking areas
Why could that be? Maybe it has something to do with the fact that those are the only places where said 99% mode of transport responsible for 7,500 pedestrian deaths a year is banned and streets, where e-scooters should normally a go in cities, are designed for 2.5 tonne cars going 40?
The limit makes sense.
I mean yea, it does, but it is in essence just another concession to car dependency. Can't curb pedestrian deaths because infrastructure is dogshit, drivers are careless and cars become more and more unsafe? Just regulate the hell out of every means of transport other than the one causing all the deaths and make getting from a to b as hard as possible for everyone not driving. Helps to a) blur the blame and cause some infighting (for instance, this post) and b) getting more people in cars must mean fewer pedestrian deaths right?? also more cars sold and no expensive infrastructure changes. Phew.
So how is it not a valid argument? It's blatantly obvious that if cars were invented right now, with models as they are right now, safety concerns would be through the roof and they'd be regulated to hell and back with electronical speed-limits just like e-scooters are right now. The only reason cars are not limited in such a way is because they are a legacy device, part of America's cultural identity and with a uncontrollably powerful lobby behind it so any attempt in that regard would immediately lose you public support. You're asking for more well considered arguments, but I'm wondering what your argument is that cars should not be speed limited, other than that's just the way it is, let everything concede to the status quo?
- Note that cars are heavily regulated, have speed limits, collision regulations, are required to only operate on designated paths and require training to operate.
  Meanwhile the scooters can be used by anyone without licensing, have no speedometer, and can go anywhere without a pedestrian even having a clue a scooter might be coming.
  Things could be better, but in these areas frankly an even lower speed limit would not make cars that much safer, and you'd be better off without roads in some areas and poof, cars would be gone. However electric scooters would still be zipping around.
- These devices probably cause < .1% of fatal pedestrian accidents
  Percentage is meaningless without context. The stat you're actually looking for is pedestrian deaths per mile. And it's probably quite bad for these vehicles because they explicitly commingle with pedestrians.
  Cars don't spend very much time on parts of roads that have pedestrians on them, and when they do, there's signage or traffic lights to help. Cars also have lights to help drivers see pedestrians and help pedestrians see cars, and generally make a lot of noise. You get none of these benefits with personal motorized vehicles. (Well ok, a scooter probably comes with some lights, but they're probably also small and shitty and unregulated, so they don't really count...)
Only one of these is often ridden on footpaths and walking areas.
It's all of them.
- Key word here is "often"

I couldn't care less if e-scooters gain more traction but I do care if a completely unprotected vehicle can go at speeds where either the driver/rider or a pedestrian can get killed or seriously injured in the event of an accident and those have already happened where I live, with a large proportion going towards recklessness of the driver/rider.

These vehicles have been recorded travelling down highways, criss-crossing traffic, cutting in front of busses, etc, often with very gory results for every part involved.

We do not need more blood on the streets.

In Germany they're limited to bicycle infrastructure and neither sidewalks nor highways are that, 20km/h (hardware limit, 12.4274mph in colonial units), no license but minimum age is 14, same DUI laws as for cars, and you need insurance. Which, granted, is quite cheap at 30-60 Euro a year and comes with a cute little license plate in fashionable colours (as in: changes every year). There's also some signalling requirements mostly mirroring bikes, minimum standards for brakes, such stuff. No regular technical inspection, though.
The morale? If you want to go fast get a bike 30km/h aren't that hard.
- I'm a bit to the south! Hello from Portugal!
  We allowed those contraptions with the same restrictions as bicycles but because the tourist industry is wild here, they became sort of a fever and soon we were having people modifying those things to reach 80km/h or more.
  Accidents have been crazy and bloody.
- 20 is pretty slow, that's going to cause conflicts with cyclists that want to go 30.
- e-kickscooters, e-bikes and pedelecs can actually go faster here, but they would need to be classified as motorscooter/moped (<45km/h, drivers license, operating license, no use of sidewalks or bike lanes, mandatory helmet) or motorbikes (motorbike license, registered plate not just insurance plate, mandatory inspections)

I drive a scooter and don't own a car. But this is the sort of braindead post that will likely drive me to block this community. It's an embarrassment to anybody who can think logically.

Our society has a problem with making everything absolutes. Trevor Noah had a great comment once about this where he brought up cats vs dogs and he asked why society suggests we have to pick one and can't just like both.
Because of that, any dissent or criticism is seen as being against something. You think nuclear energy should be encouraged? Clearly you just want to drill for more oil and spew as much carbon as possible! You think this meme is an utterly illogical and dishonest comparison? Well clearly you must support the ubiquity of oversized cars with poor efficiency, and you don't think our cities need more transportation options or walk ability!
All of this is to say, you're right on the money. We have to call out bullshit like this when we see it on "our side" and criticize it as ridiculous. We need to recognize that OP is well intentioned, but this is a nonsensical/extreme take. Extremism forms when these people don't get called out and a group chastises internal criticism.
It's also frustrating because it directly undermines the cause. There is absolutely more reliance on cars than there should be. There absolutely are more people buying big trucks than need them. There are so many valid arguments to make, so many thoughtful points to bring up.
But if the arguments and content being presented are factually incorrect, if they contain erroneous arguments or irrelevant comparisons, then it's easy for people who don't agree with the entire premise to just dismiss it as nonsense. This convinces no one, and worse, it may actively convince people that people who want to reduce usage of vehicles are stupid.
It's also dumb because there's no way that 6800 pound truck is going 0-60 in 4 seconds. They even put a slower time on the allegedly 400lb-lighter truck with more horsepower. If I'm wrong about that guesstimate, then oh well, the big trucks are stupid anyway.
- Both of the trucks have a 0-60 time of 4.5 seconds apparently. The heavier truck being an EV is why it can match the other due to having full torque available and not needing to shift.

Then use a fucking ebike? Motorized vehicles dont belong on sidewalks, period. How the fuck are people gonna walk to work in a BUSINESS DISTRICT if there's scooters saturating the sidewalk?

By banning cars in the city and rallocating freed space to ebikes. Oh, sorry, this is harder than rocket science for you.
They have to go on bicycle lanes and streets (where there is no bicycle lane) here in Germany. Makes sense tbh. Cars should be slowed down to 30km/h in settlements though imo. Going on a 50km/h street is neither safe for bicycle, nor e-scooters, nor for crossing pedestrians.
And they are great ways of transportation. Grant us public transport users so much more independency.
They should introduce enforced signal lights though (only some have them). That is my only real concern here. Signalling with the arm is just not safe on a e-scooter.
- Even 30 km/hr feels a bit high honestly. In a busy downtown you're not going to be moving much at all.

I don't know if you really want a "swap" here, so much as a "speed limit all of these, or maybe ban two of them." If you get on a scooter with a max speed of 118MPH what you're actually doing is committing suicide.

You are derailing. This post is not about faster scooters. This post is a about absurdly overpowered tanks that can (and do) wreck havoc without being limited in any considerate way.
- This post is literally titled "Swap these please".
I like your name.

I've been hit by people on Escooters 3 times in the last 4 years.

If you wanna add speed controls to cars fine, but I think the ones that cohabit the sidewalk that people are routinely driving drunk as fuck can absolutely stay speed locked.

Where’s the guy that got hit by the vehicles on the right? Maybe there’s a reason that perspective isn’t being heard.
- if you want to add speed control to cars fine
  I'm literally not arguing against speed controls on cars. You can tell that by reading.
  I'm saying I ALSO appreciate the mechanisms on scooters helping to keep me, as a pedestrian safe.
  What is wrong with your brain that makes these mutually exclusive propositions?

Not to detract from the idea that trucks are dangerous (they most definitely are) but I’m not sure this is the best argument for this. An asshole in a truck doesn’t mean they necessarily will drive their truck down the sidewalk like what is common with assholes on two wheels. 4 wheels will do many other dangerous things. but assholes who ride their two wheels on sidewalks going top speed even at 15 without making room for pedestrians is a valid concern.

It's also primarily an issue of lacking infrastructure. Two wheeled assholes wouldn't be on the sidewalk if there was a bike lane, unless they're huge two wheeled assholes.
- 100% this, the only time I ride my ebike on the sidewalk is when there is no bike lane or separate bike path. Cause if I have to choose between riding on a 45 mph road or the sidewalk I'm gonna pick the sidewalk and just go slower when pedestrians are around.
An asshole in a truck doesn’t mean they necessarily will drive their truck down the sidewalk like what is common with assholes on two wheels.
Not to defend irresponsible scooter use, but the 'but scooters are more commonly a hazard to pedestrians' argument could (and arguably should) be expanded to include trucks vs. cyclists.
I don't always have bad interactions with motorists, but when I do it's almost always some guy in a truck that feels entitled to drift over into the bike lane while I'm in it, or when there isn't a bike lane, to overtake dangerously- if I have one thing I feel threatened by when I ride my bike, it's not scooters, it's badly-behaving motorists but mostly men in trucks.
If we're going to use the 'I feel threatened by scooters when I am a pedestrian' measure to justify regulating them, what if I feel threatened by big truck drivers when I am a cyclist? Yeah this all ultimately boils down to inadequate infra so not everyone has a safe or appropriate place to be, and these are all real problems- it doesn't make sense to me to decide one of them ought not to be addressed.

Wankpanzers vs actually suitable last-mile vehicles.

it's gonna be hilarious in a decade when all these trucknuts types have to give up their giant jacked up shitmobiles. vroom vroom while you can children.

- depressingly plausible.
Not to mention trucks have fewer regulations put in place. Car companies can make higher margins by selling those instead so they are pushing them really hard. What we need is more regulations put on larger vehicles, but you bet they are lobbying hard against that.
What makes you think that would happen? There won't be any laws in the USA to ban gasoline or diesel vehicles in your lifetime.
- Bet you a soda you're wrong. Writing's on the wall chudly, your vroom vrooms are gonna go byebye one day. It'll either be through regulation or lack of fuel availability, or the mobs that tear you out of your fucking cavemanmobile and beat you to death for continuing to make the atmosphere unlivable. Take your pick.
That’s funny. Last time I checked Rolling Coal was still a thing.
Guess there still some time left.
- compensate while you can. if that's what gives you joy I can see why the world ending for everyone else is an attractive thing.

Bunch of crabs arguing against other crabs in the comments rather than reclaiming the seas for ourselves.

ah yes, time to build scooter lanes in pedestrian districts that pedestrians aren't allowed on and make it a crime to cross them when there's traffic. great idea.

Probably it was intended to be sarcasm, but this is exactly what happened to cars.
- Yes, hence the sarcasm ...
Is it time to make a fuck scooters community?

Cars rarley drive on the sidewalk though.

Just wait for the EV Escalade where the fucking thing weighs in at 9000lbs....

why wait? that's how much an electric hummer weighs 🙃
- That maybe the EV I'm thinking about, I just know its a massive monstrosity of a vehicle.

Do your cities not have speed limits?

Yes, but not enforced by GPS.
- For the trucks in the picture, the speed is limited by the manufacturer.
  I really hate these trucks. Not for all the genuine reasons that everyone else does. I have a 1995 Geo Tracker. It might have 60 horsepower on a good day. It's perfect for everything I need it for. Low horsepower vehicles are awesome. Buying a 700hp truck that's limited at the ECU to 100mph, but you only drive it on 45mph roads, is such a waste. It's like buying a million dollar house and sleeping in the garage.
  Bring back 80hp bulletproof tiny trucks.

I get the point but fuck e scooters, especially rental ones. They don't replace car journeys, they replace walking or bus/train journeys, all of which are better for the environment than an escooter or ebike.

That is not true in places with poor public transport. They are used in place of cars by many for their daily commute where I live and they are not going walking distances.
- If you dont mind me asking, where do you live? because even in America I saw the same behaviour.

I think that's to protect the person on the scooter from the people in the trucks

Considering these kind of stats, you'd be terrified to see the mass and force of subways and trains which also go through cities.