It is Israel that must be deradicalized, not Palestine

So here's a comment which will probably be downvoted to hell, but I can deal with that.

I'm almost 50 years old. Israel and Palestine (plus other surrounding countries) have never been at peace as long as I can think.

There's always some asshole who thinks fighting a war is the better option. If an Israeli prime minister wants to make peace, they fucking shoot him. If a Palestinian leader becomes too moderate, Hamas will do their own thing.

In the meantime, there are at least some people on both sides who wish for nothing more than peace. Yes, we can debate on which side has more of them and it's damn certain there aren't enough of them by far.

But can we maybe just stop taking a side? This conflict is not about Israel or Palestine having to be deradicalized, OP, it's about the all the warmongers and religious fundamentalists and radicals on both sides who need to be deradicalized.

There will never be an end to this as long as I live if we continue to blame either Israel or the Palestinians. Both is wrong, both of them haven't done nearly enough to stop this insanity.

(But yeah, I totally agree, the current right wing Israeli government is a hopeless case if you want peace.)

Hamas is not Palestine and Palestine is not Hamas.
The victims of genocide, apartheid, occupation do not have the same level of culpability as the perpetrators. And it's not the current right wing government that's to blame, sorry. It is the whole edifice that the Israelis have built of occupation, apartheid, and now genocide.
You want a moderate palestinian leader? He exists. His name is Marwan Barghouti. And it's not Hamas that has "done their own thing". He's in an Israeli jail, with that worm Ben Gvir torturing him.
And if 50 years seems like a long time to you, and that they should just grow up and accept the fait accompli of the occupation and the defeat, well sorry but that says more about you. I know nothing about you but I wouldn't be surprised if you come from a cultural background that doesn't have a history of resistance and struggle for freedom. My Greek ancestors were occupied for 400 years. The Irish for 800. Warmongering? Wars for freedom are just wars. Peace is not the absence of war, it is the presence of justice. No justice? No peace. As simple as that.
So yea, I'm going to take a side.
- Hear hear, well said, as a 52 year old, (albeit I'm Lebanese and had my fair share of Israeli wars), it's been obvious from day 1 Israel has long been practicing blatant apartheid policies in the Gaza strip, and providing IOF support to terrorist settler pogroms in the west bank. The vile entity that is the Israeli government today needs to be torn down and rebuilt to allow for a viable Palestinian state.
  I too am taking a side and fuck Israel and the IOF.
  Edit: Formatting
- No justice? No peace. As simple as that.
  And here's another thought on this: It seems as if quite a lot of arab people (not only the Palestinians) view the mere existence of Israel as an injustice.
  Logical conclusion? Obvious...
- I know nothing about you but I wouldn’t be surprised if you come from a cultural background that doesn’t have a history of resistance and struggle for freedom.
  Is this some kind of attempt to dispute my right to an opinion? Or an attempt to devalue it? I know nothing about you, but come on. I'm sure you can find better arguments for your positions than thinly veiled ad hominems.
- Hamas is not Palestine and Palestine is not Hamas.
  I acknowledged that when I said "If a Palestinian leader becomes too moderate, Hamas will do their own thing.".
  The victims of genocide, apartheid, occupation do not have the same level of culpability as the perpetrators.
  No, they don't. There are many blameless Palestinians. And there are Israelis who voted for the current government, they surely carry more guilt in this war than Palestinian victims.
  that they should just grow up and accept the fait accompli of the occupation and the defeat, well sorry but that says more about you
  Firstly, I never said they have to accept it. If you think war is the only means of not accepting and trying to change it, it says a lot about you. Secondly, someone else in this comment section said: "what will lead to an enduring peace is actually more important than what is just."
  No justice? No peace. As simple as that.
  This is why this will never end.
This war is about land and imperialist control over the middle east, not religion.
- Religion has never been used as anything more than an excuse for pretty much any conflict. It simply can never be a legitimate casus belli.
But can we maybe just stop taking a side? This conflict is not about Israel or Palestine having to be deradicalized, OP, it's about the all the warmongers and religious fundamentalists and radicals on both sides who need to be deradicalized.
Partially incorrect, since the vast majority of Israelis clearly support the actions of their current government and army. Now, this could be due to mass propaganda inside Israel. Quite possible, but the numbers are still way too high. The level of support is higher than it was in Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia, where as we now know, propaganda was constant and ubiquitous.
Moreover, it's one of very few countries on the planet that have never had a significant peaceful period in their history. Pretty much since its establishment in 1948, Israel has been slaughtering people. Admittedly, not all of it is their fault. I don't blame them for getting invaded literal hours after declaring independence. However, Europe has experienced this in the past as well, and yet, it managed to forge peace lasting longer than its conflicts.
This, and more, points me to a suggestion that Israel does in fact need to be deradicalized. How we'd go about it, if confirmed to be the case, is an entirely different matter.
- Partially incorrect, since the vast majority of Israelis clearly support the actions of their current government and army.
  I actually agree with this and nothing I said is in contradiction with this fact. There are still some Israelis, albeit far too few, who want peace.
- You might be surprised that back until around the end of the 80's, a Palestinian from Gaza could just drive to Tel Aviv to have a coffee with his jewish Israeli friends.

I mean, it's really both. Hamas is batshit crazy, they're just far less militarily powerful.

There are no good guys in the Israel Palestine fight.

Hamas has power because they are resisting an apartheid state. I'm sorry but I absolutely hate this take. You can criticize a state when it gains sovereignty and is enacting unjust laws against its citizens. But when the only resistance to an apartheid state is a right wing faction that right wing faction is still correct for resistance.
Do you think the solution to the unjust Jim Crow laws of the segregation in the US South would be for Canada to start carpet bombing Atlanta? A people can not make progress within their state structures while under the thumb of oppression and apartheid.
The time to criticize the Palestinian state is after there is a sovereign Palestinian state. Hamas on paper might have right wing ideas. But Hamas as a force fighting an apartheid state against the genocide of its people is absolutely fully justified. And that's who makes up "Hamas".
The Palestinian people don't have the luxury of deciding which ideology is fighting to resist their extermination. And not until they have self determination as a people can they begin to actually progress in their civil rights.
- Not to mention that few Palestinians currently alive ever voted for Hamas. The average Palestinian is 20 years old, 63% of their population is under 29. The last election was in 2006, meaning 63% of the current population would be 10 or younger when those elections happened.
If one stops trying to subjugate the other, the other should hopefully slowly start to be calm down about the subjugation.
Years and years of people stealing land, burning houses, shooting unarmed protesters and prosecuting people unfairly only leads to more hatred, more conflict, and more war.
If there was any chance of a free and fair election in Palestine that could elect something else it would be good, but only would end up different if it came without Israel's interference and them actually staying out of Palestine. Governments like Israel and the U.S. or U.K. trying to put anyone on the ground there is more likely to cause conflicts. Where as if the UN countries all agreed to cut all trade with Israel if they didn't stop trying to instigate shit.. Israel would likely listen, or dissolve over time if they didn't. The only people who should be on the ground there is investigate journalists and AID from around the world to help those people rebuild and leave whatever can be left behind them behind them
- Honest question:
  Why are the US and other countries, backing Israel so hard? I've heard they have an amazing spy system, and it seems to be only politicians that back Israel unconditionally. Is it blackmail, keeping our fuck ups as status quo, or maybe "Hamas is evil no matter what?"
Hamas accept the two state solution. Israel doesn't
- Hamas doesn't accept the two state solution. They are open to maybe discussing potentially reaching a consensus about the 1967 borders.
  If you want to underscore Israeli unreasonableness, you've got to point to the PA/Fatah. The PA/Fatah has accepted the two state solution and has stopped violent resistance against Israel. They are in every way an interlocutor for peace. And in return they are being constantly undermined and ratfucked by Israel. Their territory is being annexed, its authority ridiculed, ita legitimacy destroyed.
- Hamas sabotaged the Oslo Accords by blowing up civilians exactly because they opposed a two state solution. (Succesfully, because this then helped Netanyahu seize power)
Secular Palestinian Political Organisations existed, Bibi supported Hamas specifically to weaken the secular flanks, because it’s way easier to justify a genocide against Hamas
- thats what i read too, and he mostly advocated funding to hamas too.
- The secular Fatah ended up being the one collaborating with Israel
Did you just "bOth SiDeS" a genocide?
"82% of Israelis want to expel Palestinians from Gaza; 47% want to kill every man, woman, child in Gaza"
https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2025/05/30/poll-israelis-expel-palestinians-gaza-genocide/
I doubt you'd have the same number from Palestinians because they are not indoctrinated from birth to dehumanise, like the Israelis are. There's a reason corporate media in the West never interview "normal" israelis
- I think you seriously underestimate the Palestinians and what they think of their neighbours
Hamas is batshit crazy, they're just far less militarily powerful.
What? Hamas's position of "give us a Palestinian state and we'll give them our weapons" is very reasonable. Their lack of respect for civilian lives is one thing, but "batshit crazy" ain't it. Why do you think they're batshit crazy?
There are no good guys in the Israel Palestine fight.
Of course there aren't. Especially not the (checks notes) starving civilians, children, the elderly, the disabled and the people wanting to live a normal life. They're ceratainly not "in the fight". They're not right beside it, either. They're magical beings made up by Khamas to make the world hate Israel.
Both sides are the same. That's why one should genocide the other. It is the natural order of the world, after all.
Come on, dude/dudette. It's not about sides. It's about people. But there's one thing about sides I do know: there's one side of history you're on. And it's exactly the wrong one.
Hamas is crazy as Crazy Horse was “crazy”. You know what both have/had in common? They are/were fighting displacement of their friends and family due to colonizing powers. The only difference is the latter's people suffered almost complete annihilation while the former is a work on progress. If the British didn't insist on making Palestine their reservation for Jews, then Palestinian freedom fighters wouldn't have had to fight Zionists violently encroaching upon their native land.
Fatah. Marwan Barghouti. Palestinian civil society calling for BDS.
Just because Israel wants the Hamas scarecrow as its opponent doesn't mean the rest of Palestinian society is irrelevant.
also you must be deradicalized, and everyone else on lemmy
Depends on if you consider the civilians stuck in the middle of the conflict to be "in the fight". They're certainly casualties of it.

"82% of Israelis want to expel Palestinians from Gaza; 47% want to kill every man, woman, child in Gaza"

https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2025/05/30/poll-israelis-expel-palestinians-gaza-genocide/

It would be very interesting to see how Palestinians would respond to the same questions.
- All of the land occupied by Israel is stolen from Palestinians, they would be justified in wanting them out and their homes back. But if you ask them they generally say they don't necessarily want to evict anyone, most of the average people there just want to live and have sovereignty.
- Why would Palestinians want Palestinians expelled from Gaza?
- Not super relevant though
- Almost certainly similar in spirit, regardless of what their Western fans like to project.
  It's a pretty symmetrical situation, even if they have different skin colours. If only we could treat it that way (edit: and then the capability gap wouldn't be there either).

Israel? The nation that "secretly" detonated a nuclear bomb without any repercussions after the ban?

Israel? The nation that has a plan to nuke as many people as possible if their "promised land" is threatened?

No, not that Israel. There's no way.

You can already see the hallmark signs of a state funded media campaign to undermine any and all claims that the ceasefire has been broken and continues to be so.

They’re using the fact that people are tired of seeing and reading about horrible things knowing they have no control over it. As a result, the public are now personally invested (mental wellbeing) into the ceasefire being real. Even if the bombing campaign and conditions are nearly identical to pre-“ceasefire” levels, the general public is exhausted and takes the (still propagandized) media’s coverage as truth.

Hypernormalisation keeps coming to mind.

Porque no los dos

They are not wrong that Israel is radicalised. However, peace is a process, and what will lead to an enduring peace is actually more important than what is just.

If Israel was actually willing to reconcile and treat Palestinians as equals, the South African model of truth & reconciliation (including amnesty for abuses in exchange for full disclosure of what happened), it wouldn't be just for the victims, but it would allow both sides to move on peacefully.

The real problem is that Netanyahu, Smoltrich, Ben Gvir etc... don't actually want peace, so even a neutral truth & reconciliation is currently unlikely to happen without their backers (especially the US) forcing them.

benjamin needs to be prosecuted like he shouldve been, before he got the PM position again.

I think Israel is carrying out a genocide and even so my question is: Why not both? Whose responsibility is it, and why uniquely on Israel/Palestine?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tIdCsMufIY

I'm not naive enough to think this is possible, I'd just be happy if world powers and neighboring countries at least stopped feeding the conflict. Oh, look at me, and I just said I wasn't into naive hopes.

Sure, one side has 95% of the world's wealth behind it and the support of the strongest military in history, but yeah both sides are equally responsible and have equal impact on whether the genocide continues...
The most certain way to deradicalize the Palestinians is simply to deradicalize and demilitarize the Israeli state and to dismantle its apartheid and occupation edifice.
The video is stupid because Palestinian DNA traces back to the Canaanites whereas Israelis are from Poland.

You spelled dissolved wrong.

It doesn't news. It is just opinion.

is this blog?

Canadian Dimension (CD) is a Canadian political magazine established in 1963 and based in Winnipeg, Manitoba. The publication is known for its left-wing orientation, including viewpoints associated with social democracy and libertarian socialism.[1] In 2019, Canadian Dimension transitioned to a digital-only format.[2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Dimension
- So, essentially yes.

Kahanism sucks.

its the aliens that are making the illuminati cause wars who are at fault.

Why not both? Israel first though.

Edit: fine, palestine first. Easy with the downvotes.