But I like the secret handshakes of the Illuminati

As Naomi Klein said: Conspiracy theorists often get the feeling right but the facts wrong.

i have an ur-conspiracy theory that every elaborate conspiracy theory is a distraction from a simple and straightforward conspiracy. for every "trump is trying to uncover a vast child sex ring" there's a "trump fucks kids and our system of capital protects him"
- That kind of sums up the difference Naomi Klein makes in Doppelganger about conspiracy theory and leftist critics: Leftists will look at the system while conspiracy theorists will assume the system is good but some people, most often Jews, have somehow corrupted it.

"You don't need to invent an invisible shadow government to be mad at. You can just be mad at the actual government."

i think- i think the "invisible shadow government" conspiracies are a cope. if someone voted for the current government that is fucking things up (as the opposition said they would) then it might be hard to admit to having made the wrong choice whilst voting, especially if the current government claims to hold the same values as you "my wholesome christian government that said they'd help guys like me wouldn't be the ones making my life harder! it must be the secret cabal!!!"

Why not both?

The rich love being in a exclusive secret clubs and creating a secret club with dedicated buildings/rooms is not super difficult if you have money. They are still the same rich though.

I mean there's definitely groups of powerful rich people that aren't widely known. That's just cuz they're smart enough to stay out of the Limelight. It's not a secret society though.

Like Thiel and Ellison. They are pulling the strings like a marionette on our government, but they aren't household names.
If the rich people control everything then it would be normal to put the spotlight on each one of them once in a while just for society to know who holds the power. Instead newspapers gossip about movie stars and a small group of rich people. That's more than smartness.
- Well yeah man who do you think owns the spotlights?
- If the rich people control everything then it would be normal to put the spotlight on each one of them once in a while just for society to know who holds the power.
  Ain't no "If". There is no need for the people to know who holds the power if they are perfectly capable of maintaining power without the spotlight, which they are. Being in 'the spotlight' would only hurt them because then people would know who to blame.
  It's only the ignorant jackasses like Trump and Musk who gained their power by luck who brag about their power, the rest are cunning enough to know better.

I'm from Buenos Aires and I say kill 'em all!

The only good billionaire is a dead billionaire

Secret group of rich people

Let me guess. Those rich people are Jewish?

No, they're secret. No way to know. Unless you got insider information. i lick it boom boom dem
What is it with people associating Judaism with secret power? Just because they win a disproportionate amount of Nobel prizes?
- The argument that I heard was "historically, jews weren't allowed in many professions. But lending money was something they could do. So that's how they got rich and with money comes power." But I'm not sure whether that's the 'real' reason...
- It's because they're smart and intelligent and dominated a lot of the intellectual circles in the 20th century so with that comes presumedly power. It's 40% conspiracy theory, 20% truth, and 40% the media's ambition to sell juicy headlines.

Both. The smart works work behind the scenes like that anti christ looking mfer Peter thiel.

He looks like a fucking tweaker
- no joke, he wants to live forever, he's into cryonics and wants to test some random ass not-yet-meds on people to that end (see his anti-FDA stance and enhanced games)
I don't really know how widely known Peter Thiel is. Like the circles I run in know him. He's known here. But does the average person on the street know who is? Not even that does the average news watcher/reader know who he is?

Why not both?

I agree with this. Also, I think the rich people trying to control the working class don't have a grand conspiracy. Mostly, I think they silently cooperate in a way that looks coordinated, but is just individual self-interest that happens to line up. We get screwed on all fronts by similar-looking corporations, so it looks like a conspiracy.

But when rich people buy politicians, that's a public and well known conspiracy.

Mostly, I think they silently cooperate in a way that looks coordinated, but is just individual self-interest that happens to line up.
Plato observed this. It's called oligarchy. He said the good news is that it eventually falls because of the lack of coordination, because oligarchs having their own interests end up conflicting one another. The people also always get fed up with corruption eventually. The bad news is that it will get worse before it gets better.

Secret Group of Rich People = Poor People, Migrants, and Minorities

nooo don't you see the secret group of rich people wants the immigrants to have a cheap supply of labor force that's willing to work for less and displaces our own white population. we're better, but we can't tell you why. also the immigrants are lazy and are leeching on our subsidies, so we must remove the subsidies for all so the immigrants don't get them. also won't somebody think of the children. it doesn't matter what exactly you think of them, as long as you show you're in control by taking dominance and not letting others choose what to do. also imagine how bad it would be if women could choose how many children to have. we'd all die out. we can't tell you why that would be bad, but the white race must always stay on top. god bless america.

Why does one replace the other? Ever since 9/11 I've noticed a real push to discredit conspiracy theories to the point where the term now invokes images of lunatics with tin foil hats and insane ideas like lizard people and whatnot. It's been really effective too. Like, there's things out there that sound bat shit crazy until it turns out they were true - like operation Northwoods for example - but nobody seems to care because they are verified decades later.

Sure, there's visible people out there that can be blamed, but why is it so outlandish that there may be more who know how to hide from public scrutiny?

I've always wondered for example, what ever happened to the vast wealth of all these families that feature in every conspiracy theory like the Rothschilds, the Rockefellers etc? Are we to believe that they just faded away from public affairs, are no longer important and that the richest men in the world are the newbies, Bezos Elon etc? I've not looked into it or anything (Eddie Bravo style) but somehow I don't buy it, I bet they're still behind major things that are happening today. If anyone has an explanation I'd love to hear it btw. Would love nothing better than a good debunking.