India-Pakistan jets clash in one of the largest dogfights in recent history
India-Pakistan jets clash in one of the largest dogfights in recent history
Fighting between the two nuclear rivals has intensified amid international concerns and calls for cooling off
Some 125 Indian and Pakistani fighter jets battled for over an hour in one of the biggest dogfights in recent history, according to a Pakistani security source quoted by CNN.
If the numbers of aircraft were confirmed, it would make it one of the largest air battles since World War Two.
I think we can start calling this whole global situation WW3 now.
The only reason it isn't yet, is because the conflicts don't all align along two clear sides.
Some 125 Indian and Pakistani fighter jets battled for over an hour in one of the biggest dogfights in recent history, according to a Pakistani security source quoted by CNN.
A total of 125 fighter jets engaged in an hour-long aerial battle, with both sides confined to their own airspace as long-range missiles were exchanged at distances surpassing 100 miles, CNN said.
So no dogfight at all. Thanks, Newsweek.
Yeah, 'aerial battle' would have been the term I used, but hey since when are journalists supposed to know what words mean?
I suppose it is technically possible there could have been some actual close range dog fighting in this giant battle, lots of jets involved still have actual guns, as well as less long ranged and less accurate missiles...
On the other hand:
Holy fuck.
125 aircraft engaged in essentially one gigantic battle?
That is totally unprecedented in the modern era.
Derp, they covered this in the article
The only things I can think of that come close to that scale are uh... Desert Shield in the Gulf War, but that was massively one sided in the US's favor, we pretty much completely surprised the Iraqi Air Force and destroyed most of their aircraft while they were on the ground...
I can't think of any like... post jet aircraft era battle that involves more than 50 aircraft at the same time in the same battle.
Ok, had to look this up: 'Black Friday' in the Korean War, jets, but no missiles... the Battle of El Mansoura, Israel v Egypt 1973, involved around 200 total aircraft, Operation Mole Cricket B, Israel v Syria 1982, again about 200 total aircraft... and thats basically it.
So, uh, anyway... Pakistan and India both have nukes, and as best I can tell, both have threatened to use them is things escalate... so... uh... yeah...
Apparently there is a cease fire, apparently Trump is taking credit for it, apparently it has already been violated?
I am watching India Today's livestream and they are currently saying Pakistan has and is currently still violating the ceasefire, and I have little doubt the Indians are as well.
EDIT: Former Indian Secretary MEA is basically saying Trump's 'ceasefire' is complete bullshit, that India and Pakistan reached their own ceasefire, and though it seems like its falling apart, the other point here is that neither Pakistan nor India are paying any attention to Trump, they have no idea what he is talking about, they have not agreed to anything mediated by the US.
That's modern dogfighting. Don't viate enemy airspace so ground AA can't get you. Rely on BVR missiles because if you are in range with guns something went terribly wrong
On the off chance that you're not joking, what @Quacksalber@sh.itjust.works is pointing out:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogfight
A dogfight, or dog fight, is an aerial battle between fighter aircraft that is conducted at close range.
A "dogfight" isn't just a synonym for an air-to-air engagement, but specifically refers to a close-range one.
This is most modern day combat. Getting shot at by things from tens to hundreds of kms. Most people think of WW2 action movies, which are already pretty unrealistic. Or maybe in this case Star Wars dogfights, which are just... lol
That's the reality of a modern day "dog fight". All radar and ECM...
No one said modern war would be more exciting...
Dogfight as in two dogs barking each other with a fence in the middle... 😅
So the air version of their border guard dancy thing where the challenge is who stomps the loudest wins, while random people around enjoy the ridiculous show while eating pop corn.
world war iii is dumb and i find myself realizing the start of world war i surely felt like this, too
The dumb cycle rolls on. Let's hope humanity can break it some day.
when the cuttlefish read the historic record of what happened in our era they're gonna think our species was so stupid, and they're going to wonder whey their ancestors only lived for a year when they clearly had things more figured out than us
When I travelled India a decade ago I shared a cabin on a 24 hour train journey with the head of the Indian air force and his father, the former head of the Indian air force, who flew jets in the last Indo-Pakistan war.
That's my story. Thanks for listening.
war_counter++
;
It's really starting to feel like WW1 again. Now that we are going back to a multipolar world order, shit is starting to rapidly spin out of control. I expect the current wars to get worse, and new ones to break out. My money is on China invading Taiwan next. :/
I think they might as well I just hope none of these skirmishes go to the Nuclear level as I'm almost certain the US will lose at least a couple of carriers intervening.
I think the fight will be very lopsided in China's favour and with Trump at the helm who knows.
The "dog fight" between Pakistani and Indian fighter jets, which Pakistani officials say downed five Indian planes, was one of the "largest and longest in recent aviation history," a senior Pakistani security source told CNN. The Pakistani claim has not been corroborated and could not be immediately verified by Newsweek.
5 planes downed would be a lot, I wonder what the actual count is.
One Indian plane is already confirmed by France and US claims 2 were down by Chinese jets of Pakistan
Though in all fairness this is mostly meaningless as it's just random missile throwing rather than a real engagement
Dawg that's how BVR fights work.
It's still a dogfight, you don't just sit there and let the missile do all the work.
Even before the crazy new range of China's PL-15, PAF was using AIM-120s and shot down a MiG-21 5 years ago.
Every airforce hides their tactics but you can open any DCS video using BVR missiles to see how difficult it can get
Fun stuff
Top Gun: The Musical
The War Zone doesn't have much up yet as of this writing, but I'd consider them a stronger publication on military matters than Newsweek.
https://www.twz.com/air/the-air-to-air-missiles-that-equip-india-and-pakistans-fighters
Meanwhile, another senior Pakistani security source has described to CNN a large-scale air battle involving 125 jets, fighting for over an hour, in which time the aircraft remained in their respective airspaces and lobbed AAMs at each other from long distances.
As well as crewed fighters, Pakistan has also made extensive claims on the destruction of Indian drones. Earlier today, Pakistan said it had downed 25 Israeli-made Harop loitering munitions. One of these drones was able to “partially” engage a target near the city of Lahore, injuring four army personnel, according to Pakistan Army spokesman Lt. Gen. Ahmed Sharif Chaudhry.
So far, India’s government has neither confirmed nor denied any of these losses. The use of Chinese-made AAMs by the Pakistan Air Force has also been capitalized on by Beijing, leading to the Indian embassy in China accusing Chinese state media of “disinformation.”
Overall, a significant degree of confusion is very much typical when dealing with engagements that have been happening in the heat of combat. A flood of official and unofficial claims and counterclaims, some of them outlandish, is also to be expected, especially when dealing with social media. So, we should keep an open mind about the results of these aerial confrontations and consider that accidents, as well as friendly fire incidents, are also very possible. At the same time, Indian and Pakistani ground-based air defense systems have very likely also played a significant role, and any aircraft losses could also be the result of surface-to-air missile engagements.
This headline is like saying there was "a big brawl between two neighboring schools" when in reality it was just kids throwing rocks over the fence.
