Ukraine tells critics of slow counteroffensive to 'shut up'

It's like every time there's a war everybody forgets how fucking long they take. WW2 took six years. The Vietnam War took almost 20 years, same with the Afghanistan War. Anybody expecting anything solid within the next couple years is delusional. Ukraine is in it for the long haul.

That's not strictly true. On the short end, there was the six-day war. On the long end, there was the hundred years' war.
Putin was clearly aiming for the short option, but then I suppose most belligerents usually are.
- I'd actually love to see a graph that shows the distribution of lengths of various wars
- The Anglo-Zanzibar War lasted less than an hour
- Dude took the low end and said "fuck that we'll do it twice as fast."
  The good news is I don't think Russia can continue to sustain these kind of losses for 199 more years.
And Russia expected their little venture to be done in days.
- It was never supposed to turn into a real war. They wanted to assassinate Zelenskyy put some Russian plant in as president, annex some more land and call it a night. Obviously Zelenskyy survived and the rest is history.
“We’ll fight til the last Ukrainian!” libs
- "We shouldn't help the rape victim and they should hope that it's over quickly. Also, it's actually not rape, it's a special sexual operation and they deserved it." - Tankies
- There’s a lot of angry liberals replying to your post, so I thought I’d link a great video on how/why the war in Ukraine came to be:
  https://youtube.com/watch?v=LL4eNy4FCs8&si=gaMRzFwo5JP5RzeD
  This channel is leftist but they aren’t communists, as far as I know.
  Tldw: This war was completely avoidable. Had the US/NATO kept its promise to not expand eastward none of this would have happened. Even Biden said that 25 years ago. Americans groomed certain Ukrainians for political office, and prevented others from running. There was an opportunity to end the war last year on somewhat decent terms for Ukraine, but Boris Johnson rushed in to stop it from happening, promising massive support. But war exhaustion has caught up and Ukraine is running out of people, and western leaders are already starting to call for the end of the war — except this time it will be on russias terms and Ukraine is going to get fucked. Big western capitalists have had their fingers in this pie because there’s a lot of money to be made in the country. That’s it.
  Anyone with two brain cells to rub together knows that Putins invasion was a horrific, imperialist move. Any commie you see protesting the war isn’t doing it because they support Russia (Russia is a capitalist country), they’re doing it because they don’t support NATO. We are often the makers of our own enemies here in the west. Viet Cong, Taliban, ISIS, and Russia were all created or shaped by western (mainly US) policies.
- support
We can hope Putin dies from being an old fuck and Russia gives up
- The US is on its last legs though. It badly needed this win. The US falls before Putin dies.
Frontlines were actually moving, especially in the Eastern Front. Not so much in China and the Pacific, though.

Everyone point & laugh at the sad tankie in this thread.

Damn we don't see them on blahaj :<
- Lucky
- Has blahaj banned hexbear?
- I can always tell when I’m browsing Lemmy from my lemm.ee account vs lemmy.world by the sheer number of tankies spouting nonsense.
the most intellectually advanced liberal has logged on

HexBear and brigading yet another Ukraine thread with misinformation and Kremlin propaganda, name a more iconic duo.

EDIT: It appears that I've triggered the horde.

It's funny seeing the replies to your comment crying about "not brigading" but then the vast majority of the comments in this post come from hexbear users commenting tankie shit
- It's almost as if they completely lack self-awareness.
Easy way to trigger them:
Ahem...
"Human Rights"
Interesting, I'm not seeing the hexbears... has my instance blocked them or has hexbear blocked me?
It's kinda a nothing of value lost kinda situation, just curious about why I'm not seeing them any more.
- Yea, they're defederated from your instance. You can check it out in the instances list of each instance under "blocked", here's yours: https://lemmy.ca/instances
- Well I might be moving instances...
  The moron brigadie is getting old.
Apparently the thread's got 117 comments, but only yours is showing. Don't they have anything better to do? Seriously...
- Apparently no 🤷
Thank you for your sacrifice, now we can just mass block them :)
Ah yes, famous Kremlin propaganda as reported by mainstream western media.

The comment threads here are weird. Who, in their right mind, would ever support a country like Russia? It's mind blowing.

Tankies.
BRICS. Even if they don’t necessarily support Russia it may just be an opportunity to take shots at the West.
Tankies claim to not be supporting Russia but only point out issues with Ukraine and believe every bit of info that comes out of Russia.
It's a whole subculture. I don't know, I can think of weirder conspiracy theories with a following.
Hexbear.net is a Russian nationalist instance... They've grown up under Putin's cencorship and state media brainwashing.

Haters gonna hate. Still though, they'll need to be cordial if some of these critics are also paying Ukrainian bills. Being rude is the fast track to falling out of favor with foriegn taxpayers.

They’re tired and weary from the onslaught of war fringe to safe their country from Putins aggression. Any dig at their progress is a dig at morale that spreads not only through the ranks, but also to the general public. There is a time for constructive criticism, but that should be done in private with actual solutions offered by those criticizing. I understand their needs to be some decorum but you can’t blame them for what I would consider a mild retort as their countrymen die trying to retake their land everyday.
- Well said.

Good for Kyiv. Those armchair generals should shut up and fight if they think things are going slowly.

Somewhere in the Pentagon there surely must be a series of rooms isolated for this war. In them intelligence is gathered, counterparts in Ukraine can be in instant contact, resources from both armies are tracked, tactics are formulated, simulations are run. How do I know this? Because this would be too good of a learning opportunity to pass up.

And those folks ain't talking.

All those folks in the 50+ age group that grew up with "Russia is enemy #1" are probably cycling through waves of intense work and prolonged orgasm.
I wouldn't be surprised if one of the first things considered in strategizing any armed conflict is whether they want Russia and China to know that we have X or are capable of Y. Russia has shown their hand. If they could do more, they would have by now.
It has also taught NATO that Russia is still in the barbaric tactics mindset. Hospitals, schools, churches, shipping centers - they're all valid targets. If Russia wants a position, they'll level the entire town. That certainly changes the plans, of anyone thought they would abode by the Geneva Conventions.
- All those folks in the 50+ age group that grew up with "Russia is enemy #1" are probably cycling through waves of intense work and prolonged orgasm.
  The ones that haven't suddenly decided that Russia is our best friend all of a sudden for some reason that I still can't figure out. This is even considering that Russia was found to have been paying out bounties on dead American soldiers, or that they had people assassinated in the UK. Certainly it should be a disqualifier that Russia isn't a true Democracy and had Putin's political opponents jailed. Two Democracies won't directly start a conflict against each other, but that doesn't hold up between Democracies and non-Democracies.
  My hope is that as Russia runs out of money and organization to fund overseas psyops, the sheen will wear off.
- The Russians have less tactics and capabilities than NATO thought. Now it is a matter of how quickly they can be overwhelmed should it come to it. Their big problem is mid level command.
- It has also taught NATO that Russia is still in the barbaric tactics mindset.
  Oh those backwards Russians, still stuck in the past, where they were just a bunch of barbarian hordes. I assume the West, by contrast, has developed a civilized kind of warfare, as befitting their superior civilized culture? That's what you're saying, right?
  The civilized West would never... oh yeah they would and they did, repeatedly, and it was worse actually in e.g. Iraq. So all this "barbarism" shit is just racism with no basis in reality.
the whole world is sending people to become veterans so they can return with their experience and become trainers.

I wish we would just go ahead and give ATACMs. It would certainly speed things up.

I'm following the combat activities (the actual combat, not high level strategic stuff). It's all mines, mines, mines and then some trench warfare.
No amount of ATACMS can do anything about that. You still have to advance slowly, figure out where the mines are, clean them up or move around them and then take the trenches.
Drones can do a whole lot more good for a whole lot less.
- Where do you follow that?
- Have you ever heard of the word "logistic"?
- BooOOOOoooo
  “drones AND f16 and ATACMS”
  Yaaay
I think that once the F16 training is completed, it will really change the face of the battle field. I assume we are giving them jdams so they will be capable of striking hundreds of miles into occupied territory.
- So 10 years?
- Aren't there only a handful of Uke pilots that knew english well enough to do the training? I'm all for sending Ukraine whatever they ask for, but I doubt F-16s will turn the tide

IMO these critics are used to air superiority which Ukraine doesn't have.

- US election is more than a year away though.
Regardless being what it is, I wonder why a few A10s couldn't be leased to provide air support.
Its a plane with little to no cutting edge technology, perfect for ground support and anti armor and entrenched positions.
- I agree and have heard stories of Ukrainians already training on them. But, I wonder if depleted uranium ammo might be a problem.

Breaching those lines was never going to be quick, but once breached the line will move quicker.

The line doesn't need to move quicker, and Ukraine moving slowly and shoring up every meter they take is going to work out better long term. They aren't on a march to invade their lost territory, they are on a march to the Azov sea to cut Russia's only remaining land access to Crimea.
They are building a wall of men and weapons and once that reaches Azov they only have to defend it - and Ukraine are very good at defence.
Then the only way Russia has to get anything to Crimea is the Kerch bridge which is almost inevitably going to be destroyed.
Depends how deep the lines are. They have breached the first line at some points. However as per ukrainians, after the first line is the second line and so on. Russia knows how to make deep defences and anywhere, where they lose one line, they will adjust and start added more lines to the rear to compensate for the lost line. First line lost, second line is now first line, third line is second and so on and add the new Nth line, since the old Nth is now Nth-1 line.
It will be a slow slug and battering ram fest, unless Russian army morale breaks/ supplies exhaust and they run.
- I saw a WSJ article yesterday saying they've been the final defense line

This has to be the dumbest take I've seen on Lemmy yet. Holy shit.
- No kidding.
  I know it’s purely anecdotal but all the Ukrainians I’ve had in my town have been some of the most kindest and polite people I’ve had the pleasure of serving
- I... have some news for you.
  Sadly, this is the sort of shit parroted amongst less tech savy populations in countries with Ukranian refugees. Mostly older parents, grandparents, older aunts and uncles and such from Eastern Europe (the first port of call usually for refugees - neighboring countries). Hence why you don't see it that often around here. It's present in the west of Europe, as well.
  Also quite popular is 'we can't take care of our own [homeless people], but have you seen the amount of money that the government is pumping into them with their fancy cars?'
  Oh and "I'm sick and tired of hearing ukranian everywhere I go. The playground is full of ukranian children and their parents that don't speak {local language}!"
  I suspect it's russian propaganda, because nobody can be that stupid on their own, right?
  Like sure, they have audi q8s. What were they supposed to do? Leave them there and walk towards new places? And if your daughter/son was fleeing invaders, what would you think of the asshats that point at them and say 'go away with yer fancy car!'? I thought we were all on the same page of not wanting russia as a neighbour in the near future. Apparently not. Somehow people running away from actual rape and murder are inconveniencing them.
As an european taxpayer who see Ukrainian in Jaguar and Audi Q7 driving aroung in my country
So you're just jealous because they weren't all beggars when the war broke out?
they are in a conflict, getting free supply of everything and they complain!
A lot of people are getting killed. They have every right to complain.
- So where are you on the other refugees who get nothing and are from even close countries than Ukraine?
  They get nothing because they're not white, right?
Those are the ones you see. How do you tell a Ukrainian from your own countrymen on a bus? They're not all rich, they're not all assholes, they are where they are because they wanted to stay alive. And so would you if you were in their shoes, you dense fuck.
- He can tell them apart through a shaded car window in the middle of traffic, who knows what this guy can do.
What a hot and plainly idiotic take.
If you're not shilling for the Russians, you're certainly dense as fuck.
- Probably a bot, they love to start their propaganda with "as an X I think that..."
Hey,
I know you are getting downvoted and railed on pretty hard here, but please take this moment to reconsider some of your core beliefs and why you might feel the way you do.
Are people fleeing their home country to get rich?
- They got rich by being crooks in the most corrupt country in Europe. They fled the country they ruined and turned into a shithole vassal state of the USA. These are the worst Ukraine has to offer.
Diday terb yur jerbs?
You don't flee to get rich, you flee to stay alive. It's no matter of money.

This is the best summary I could come up with:

Nearly three months since launching a much vaunted counteroffensive using hundreds of billions of dollars of Western military equipment, Ukraine has recaptured more than a dozen villages but has yet to penetrate Russia's main defences.

Stories in the New York Times, Washington Post and other news organisations last week quoted U.S. and other Western officials as suggesting the offensive was falling short of expectations.

Ukrainian commanders say they are moving slowly on purpose, degrading Russia's defences and logistics to reduce losses when they finally attack at full strength.

After months of fighting their way through heavy minefields, Ukraine's forces have finally reached the main Russian defensive lines in recent days, south of the village of Robotyne which they captured last week in Western Zaporizhzhia region.

They are now advancing in an area between the nearby villages of Novopokropivka and Verbove, looking for a way around the anti-tank ditches and rows of concrete pyramids known as dragon's teeth that form Russia's main fortifications visible from space.

Russia is also facing the aftermath of a mutiny two months ago by Wagner, a private army that had formed the main attack force of its own winter offensive earlier this year.

The original article contains 801 words, the summary contains 197 words. Saved 75%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

What a coincidence, "shut up" is what I tell people who can't stop talking about Ukraine and Russia.

Why?

Whoa! What news!

Is only war, why you hef to be mad?

Not the correct response to say to those who hold the purse strings to your war chest. Especially one particular country whose political tide can turn and drown you.