7mo ago

Canada's tariffs to remain despite Trump postponing tariffs on many imports from Canada for a month

Summary

Canada will maintain its initial $30 billion (CA$) in retaliatory tariffs despite Trump postponing 25% tariffs on many Canadian imports for a month.

A second wave of tariffs, originally planned at $125 billion (CA$), has been suspended. Ontario will still raise electricity prices for U.S. customers, and B.C. is considering tolls on U.S. trucks going to Alaska.

Trudeau expects a prolonged trade war, following a heated call with Trump.

About 62% of Canadian imports remain subject to tariffs, as Trump pushes for U.S. companies to shift production domestically.

United States | News & Politics @midwest.social

btaf45 @lemmy.world

7mo ago

Starting Monday, Ontario will charge 25% more for electricity sold to 1.5 million Americans in response to Trump’s tariff threats

apnews.com /article/trudeau-trump-tariffs-trade-war-58eaa333ef96d4f17965bb7004e6bee7

23 comments

That's just the art of the deal. Slamming your own dick in the car door.
- Hopefully into cybercrap's razor edge one.
- Trump can only dream of this, according to reliable sources.
Keep it up, Canada (and Mexico, too, please). The more pressure from outside, the more likely we can successfully apply pressure from inside to slow/stop/reverse the actions the current US administration takes.
It's gonna hurt and I'm not looking forward to it, but it's necessary. The world should remember the lesson from WWII that appeasement does not work and act accordingly.
- Absolutely! But it’s not just about the internal pressure. If everyone trump threatens retaliates even when he backs off, and then demands he offer assurances before they do, he looks weak. The one thing he doesn’t want, and can’t afford, is to look weak in front of his base. It won’t work immediately, but if he keeps looking weak on the public stage he’ll either stop making such threats in order to avoid it or lose enough support to matter.
Trump is going to threaten more tariffs again in two weeks anyway, when the market has recovered from the current dump and pump cycle, so it's just easier to leave them.
- It's not just about what's easy / simple, it's also about our politicians understanding that having tariffs is actually less damaging than what Trump is doing.
  More than anything, business hates uncertainty. You can invest in an uncertain future. Businesses actively prefer bad to uncertain. A world with tariffs is one where they make less money, sure, but they can factor that in. Raise their prices. Let the inflation happen. They'll be alright in the end. But a world with the possibility of tariffs, that's so much worse, because now they can't respond. Either way they bet, they could lose.
  That's why Trudeau is taking this "Shit or get off the pot" stance. The most important thing is not just to remove the tariffs, but to get a guarantee that they stay gone, otherwise there will be continual economic damage, to both countries, for as long as this bullshit continues.
  Of course any guarantee from Trump is nearly worthless, so the reality is that as long as America lets that idiotic narcissist remain in power, there will continue to be damage to both our economies just from the uncertainty his presence creates.
  But thats not a problem we can solve.
  
  Trump didn't promise to keep the tarrifs lifted, only to pause them. You are correct that it's insane to have a continual 30 day "will he won't he" tension.
  I hate that my syrup is about to get more expensive, but it's really the right thing for Canada to do.
My worry is that there really is no way down for Canada. Nobody can trust any guarantee from trump so there is no difference between "tariffs until we have guarantees" and "tariffs until the next time you fuck around". Because, as trump is incapable of learning, tariffs hurt the populace of the country imposing them more than anyone else.
That said: We (the US) desparately need hardship to force people to stop "being apolitical" or "ignoring the news for my mental health" and to get in the fucking streets. So...
- Frankly, I fully encourage the stance of “we’ll trade war the shit out of you as long as orangeboi and friends are in charge”. I am completely serious. It needs to be done.
- as trump is incapable of learning, tariffs hurt the populace of the country imposing them more than anyone else.
  It's unclear whether he doesn't understand or whether he doesn't care. If the aim is to disorient traditional allies while pumping the markets up and down for profit and plundering public funds while people are too confused to stop you, and keeping in the good books of your "friend" in Russia, the well being of the US population won't even factor into his calculations.
- tariffs hurt the populace of the country imposing them more than anyone else.
  Tariffs always hurt the customer, especially when it comes to raw resources; but can have the potential to hurt the seller as well (in the form of lost business).
  With import tariffs the recipient pays to import an item, directly costing them more. With an export tariff, the shipper pays extra, so they raise their prices to compensate, also costing the customer more.
  Now with manufactured products, the customer may have local options that are now cheaper than an import+tariffs (but still more expensive than they were paying previously), which means the foreign manufacturer has to invest in a local facility or loose customers. The customer may just be stuck with it though.
  With raw resources however, it's much less likely the customer can purchase cheaper elsewhere so they will likely just be stuck with the higher cost.
  Potash for example, the US heavily imports from Canada for use in fertilizer and just doesn't produce in sufficient quantities for it's farmers (>90% is imported). If Trump follows through and imposes his tariff on that (I think that one was 10%), farmers will have no options but to buy less or spend more. It does nothing but harm the US.
  Likewise with Canada imposing a tariff on electricity; our energy companies are going to charge more per kwh to compensate for the extra costs, and the affected states will have no choice but to pay more. Again harming the US as a result of Trumps decisions.
  
  Now with manufactured products, the customer may have local options that are now cheaper than an import+tariffs (but still more expensive than they were paying previously), which means the foreign manufacturer has to invest in a local facility or loose customers. The customer may just be stuck with it though.
  And, as trump (and apparently you) don't realize: it takes a lot of time to stand up manufacturing infrastructure. And that inherently depends on tariff'd raw materials and machines.
  In a world where "nations" are towns on either side of the river? Tariffs "make sense". You are growing your own corn so you want to actively discourage anyone from buying corn from across the river. That said, it also forces everyone to grow corn and rice and tomatoes and peppers. Rather than specializing to lower the cost for everyone.
  In a modern post industrial global economy? Everyone is already specialized to hell and back. And many resources only exist in other countries to begin with. So while selective tariffs CAN lead to long term change, they inherently cause short to medium term hardship. Which is why the focus is more on tax incentives to build out that infrastructure.
  Canada needs to use tariffs for three reasons.
  First? Because trump is a fucking moron and this is the only language he understands.
  Second? Because the US economy is so heavily dependent on exports and the only way to make us feel this is to shut down the import side in Canada. But this will cause great hardship for Canadians.
  Third? To do the borderline medieval task of forcing industries to find new sources. Except they won't be building up internal infrastructure. They will be importing from China and Europe.
  But tariffs themselves? They inherently harm the nation imposing them more than anyone else in this global economy.
Fucking good. We don't deal in chaos.
- Unfortunately, it has quickly become our (the US) primary export.
Tolls on (especially) commercial vehicles transiting BC seems absolutely appropriate. They're using the infrastructure and maybe paying some tax when refueling.
Maybe there's already some sort of way these vehicles contribute?
- They could ban american trucks from shipping through that region, that would really sting.
- They do that already sorta.
I can already see it. "I didn't start this trade war! Canada did!!!"
- Trump would drop a nuke on a country, and say that the other country started it. Even if there was only one nuke being used.

23 comments