for the next discussion with family

Sometimes libs don't realize their mask slipped. "They do the jobs we won't" is bougie shit. People will do anything that pays well enough, isn't abusive or unnecessarily dangerous, and doesn't involve being housed in a bunk on-site.

These migrant workers are being abused by capitalists, and arguably we aren't even seeing the savings anyway, for what that would be worth.

Sounds like we need to start punishing companies instead of desperate people. I'm sure Trump will get right on that
Being aware of the reality of the situation doesn't mean you support it.

They won't deport them. Being illegally working in the US will be punishable by 5 years forced labour in food farming.

Exactly, they want the labour even cheaper and without right. They want people who can't complain. They don't want to pay social taxes.
And like you said, cherry on the cake if they get free labour. Mmmmm those profit margins!
But we'll still raise the price because nobody wanna work
After seeing how horrific factory farming is, I'm genuinely wondering if I'd be psychologically better off with 5 years of prison. Or 5 years of war
I'm not even vegan, but what the fuck does that say about society? That the job that feeds you might require you to experience something so horrific, you'd prefer prison, maybe even war? ...
It's a bigger whip to keep the proles heads bent.
Yes, they will. This is what it's like to be governed by idiots.

See, you're mistaken. You are asking irrational people to use logic.

Orange man great biznus man he will make Mexico pay tariffs and food will become cheaper. Also it will deport criminals (?) So I feel safe again.

And if it all fails exactly how I was warned, it is someone else's fault, and I'm not stupid... Everything's simply a conspiracy against me!

When i see this kind of posts, i tend to ask myself : does being on the left wing mean you're ok with illegal immigrate workforce being exploited in your fields and farms ? Just so you have cheap products AND go easy on your consciences ?

Immigrants are good. Exploiting them is bad.
- That sounds like all the more reason to be for legal immigration and against illegal immigration.
only when it allows you to do cheap gotchas on the right /s
when you get past your cryptic pseudo-profound wink wink question, what exactly are you trying to say?
It is like that but it’s not always like that. Hispanic workers at a food factory a friend of mine worked would talk about hitting up blueberry picking season as a side gig in the summer.
The US built itself up on immigration since the beginning, and most impactfully over the past hundred years with "brain draining" the rest of the world. "Give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free" and all that. I don't think it's a stretch to say most of the US's success comes on the back of these immigrants with 40% of Fortune 500 companies being founded by immigrants or children of immigrants.
But the economy has changed since that poem was inscribed on the Statue of Liberty. The US has become primarily a service industry demanding skilled laborers, relegating manual laborers to the lower class along with the illegal, and often unskilled, immigrants.
So you're a blue collar American living in Appalachia, vying for the same factory job that your dad and his dad held and were able to afford a middle-class lifestyle. Except now groceries are getting hard to afford, fueling your truck hurts, and your new neighbor is a programmer who wanted a country home to relax in and work remote and finds your accent charming. You know you're now at the bottom of the ladder, and you think the illegals willing to do your work at half the price are the cause. So deport all the imigrintz! Bring back white America! Make America Great Again! /s
I don't have all the answers, but I think we should continue to restrict unskilled immigration and continue making it risky for companies to hire illegal immigrants, while offering a path to legality for those having been here for 5+ years. Raise the minimum wage, effectively securing a better lifestyle for those at the bottom (immigrant and native). Make some better/strategic investments in Central American countries so that people there have a better lifestyle and it isn't worth it for unskilled labor to immigrate. Hell, build some manufacturing capacity so we're less reliant on China.
Everyone prospers, America continues brain-draining, and the world keeps turning.
- Not risky. Suicidal. They find you have "illegal" immigrants working for you? You get a fine so big you have to close your business from prison.
  The other option: legalize all those immigrants and they become the owners of the business.
I'd personally love a path to citizenship instead of turning illegal immigrants into slave labor which is absolutely coming next. I'm guessing you're one of those people that like to trot out this high-and-mighty shit a lot while downplaying the consequences of what's actually happening.

Tariffs on Canadian oil won't lower gas prices either.

This needs more upvotes.
Enjoy your higher gas prices when he tariffs Canada.
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=63564&os=0

And imprisoning people in slave labor camps that happen to be next to farms is not "deporting".

And it’s admitting to the very social economic racism designed for poverty still adamant in our culture today to refer to a group of people as ‘food workers’

Any chance you could reformulate that as a coherent sentence?
- They're trying to sound way smarter than they are. All that work with a thesaurus and yet they started their sentence with a fucking conjunction.
- I think their argument just needs to be rephrased a bit. An English teacher would put an "awk" on that one.
  "By referring to a population as food workers, we're reinforcing a culture of class warfare still prevalent today. Illegal immigrants will never break free of poverty in this system designed to keep them economically oppressed, but incentivized enough to keep performing the job our society needs."
I mean, this is simply stating a fact, that about 20% of food labor are undocumented immigrants. It doesn't mean that's all they do or that only undocumented workers are food workers.
- Simply stating a fact you’ll refer to a human being by a matter of how easy they are to exploit. Way to racism.
- Do you assign race to that particular job and then talk about how they’ll get deported as a threat? Cuz if you do you’d be a racist.

If Trump voters could read, they'd be very upset by this.

Neoliberalism shitposts like this one, is one reason why Trump won.

Pro tip: relying on imported cheap (illegal) labor for critical production isn't sustainable nor does it create a locally and globally stable society. Especially when the world has moved from uni-polar to multi-polar.

I agree very much with this. Price increases are always disproportional to cost increases, and when cost goes down price does not. Just convenient excuse to increase profits.
Reminds of corporations threatening to move out if USSA adopts labour law. To where? Europe with even more strict labour law?
Hopefully this leads to more automation in those areas, I reckon that large scale agriculture is basically going that way since long ago
I saw a carrot harvester that basically did all the packing by itself, that was awesome
- Automation and mechanization at full scale:

trade war with mexico where 70% of US vegetables and 50% of US fruit will not help either. Nor will talking down to California, where most of the rest is from. I hope you red staters like corn and pork for every meal.

Jokes on you some even have maize
- It's amaizeing
Due to agribusiness, that's already 70% of their diet.

Let the urban farmer flourish.

Watch "community focused" small businesses struggle while their they "success friends" disappear so they can make a community focused on something other then capitol. Maybe they'll become urban farmers or intersectionalize with a passed skill like sewing or smut writing.

Get outside y'all go play chess with the old dude at the park. Go call the neighbor kid a little shit. Engage with your community.

Listen here, you little shit . . .
I can feel the engagement! It tingles a little. Yeah, I’m hooked.
I’m gonna go grow some beets in a vacant lot.
(Snarky, but also serious. This would be a good time to get to know your neighbors and your local farmers.)
While I love and support urban farms, would it really be enough space to feed everyone? Google says that each person would need about 600 sqft of space to grow the food they'd need, multiplied by the millions of people in a city... I just don't see how the numbers work.
- That is a valid concern. I doubt all the pressure of food distribution would be only on urban farmers it would have to be a coalition of multiple food sources to support people with no capitol. Half a million people in my city would require 6887 acres to feed everyone. Sounds like we got some ~~saving~~ seizing to do.

But at least we won't have gay liberal abortions, right?

I'm waiting the "pro life" crowd to start talking about assisted end of life, but so far is not even a talking point
- They already are.
  It’s specifically targeted in project 2025, making it federally illegal. The wording is such that they say assisted suicide for the terminally ill lacks dignity. Marvel at that bizarre phrasing for a moment.
  Drowning in your own lungs is usually where the prolonged dying process goes. Pain. Anxiety. Panic. But assisted suicide, easing out safely, by choice, with less pain, is the part that lacks dignity according to the theocracy part of our incoming government.
  It’s so bizarre to think about, that 74million voted for this very thing, in states that turned red, like Montana.

4D Chess move: wanna stop immigration into your country? Make your country so shitty and unlivable that it's not worth visiting let alone moving to

That's what the rolling back of child labour laws are for.

Particularly because citizens will not take those jobs.

At 20, a job was a job.

Me at 40+, physically incapable of doing that work - much less at the requisite speed.

Dammit, the one positive of suffering through summer temps is fresh produce.

"Just trust Trump" says every Trump supporter that knows nothing of how the world works

Something tells me with trump in charge, they'll leave on purpose.. There will also be a lot of Americans in the next 4 years migrating to other countries too

Mexico and Canada will have to build a wall to keep Americans out

Retaliatory tariffs strangling the ag industry's exports might for some items. For a harvest. Before the banks foreclose on the farms.

When you vote to deport grandma but still take her presents on christmas.

We don’t make everything because that’s inefficient. We trade with other countries because it is efficient.
It would be like looking at your butcher, your metal worker, and your farmer, pointing at the butcher and saying, ok, now you need to do all three. There’s no logic to it. If we have orange juice and soy beans and Canada has metal, it makes more sense to trade. Every 4x game with trade you’ve ever played works like that for a reason.
And this automation you speak of doesn’t create more jobs.
The other factor. Homeless. There are people who won’t engage drug free housing because it’s drug free. Transition housing in Portland OR sits partially empty. Why? You can’t make people do what they don’t want to do. ( I said partially, not all.). There will always be people who “don’t wanna”. Naming such a large swath of different people as a potential resource when there isn’t as much there as you indicate, doesn’t work. And for those who would work it’s not that simple. Housing, showers, and in many cases drug rehab and mental health will be needed before practical work engagement can happen. People are messy, not easily quantifiable as resources. And they cost money to fix.
And you’re forgetting the biggest element. People voted for Trump because they expected prices to go back to 2016-2020 prices. Any increase is going to incite those guys, incite some of his base, to the nth degree. Maybe you’re ok with it, but unlike you, people actually living paycheck to paycheck will not be. I really don’t want to see more angry MAGA gatherings.
You’re not living paycheck to paycheck, or you would not be talking like this.
- When I play 4X games and can't produce all the resources or research in my supply chain, I just go straight to Fanatacism (or the equivalent) and go for mass conquest.
- Per Merriam-Webster: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/alien Alien, noun: a. a person who is not of a particular group or place
  Sorry, alien doesn't always refer to extraterrestrial life. They're just as human as anyone else, they just don't belong here in their current legal status. Resident aliens also exist - they're the people who came in legally and are not yet naturalized as citizens of this country. You might be about pull out the "no human is illegal" axiom against me, to which I'll respond, it is not illegal for them to be human. It's illegal for them to be here as they are, like any other form of trespassing. If they come here legally, according to law and custom, then they're Americans - or at least they're resident aliens working for the benefit of America.
- That's not what "illegal alien" means?
The inflation that will be caused by Trump's tariffs isn't going to be "short term". If he does what he says he's going to do and the next president undos all of it, inflation is expected to get down to where it should be (i.e. pretty close to where it is now) in 10 to 15 years.

Get with your friends and neighbors and start hatching a plan to grow some of your own food starting next year. At worst you have fun and eat well.

Same energy as insinuating my personal emissions and plastic habits are what will make/break the planet.

No. This is all in the control of far more powerful groups. Why would I ruin time with family by discussing something fundamentally out of our control? Only serves to divide and no good comes of that kind of discussion.

I'll focus on paying bills and eeking out a basically okay life in spite of the shit that goes on.

I mean, if they entered the country illegally them even being within the borders is a crime in itself. We shouldn't let criminals just run free as they wish.

We just let one become president, so....
Also, how are we supposed to identify illegal aliens who don't commit crimes. The 4th amendment protects people from the government asking for your "papers". Are we just gonna put immigration checkpoints outside grocery stores?