Ukraine to fire all regional military recruitment chiefs
Ukraine sacks army recruitment chiefs in anti-graft shakeup
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.zip/post/1338851
Archived version: https://archive.ph/yDjTx
Archived version: https://web.archive.org/web/20230811193345/https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-fire-all-regional-military-recruitment-chiefs-zelenskiy-2023-08-11/
Making education so expensive that the only way for some to pursue education is to die for their country is a crime. If majority of your citizen view being part of army is only for poor people, your country does not deserve to be protected because obviously not enough people willing to fight for it. Turning your citizens into slaves and sending them into the meat grinder makes you a monster.
I'm not sure there are no situations in which draft's are permissible. If we were in a socialist society and a fascist government invades and I were Commissar of War you bet your ass the ex-bourgeois are getting drafted.
I see your point, but that's a topic that should be up for discussion among your hypothetical Party/legislature. I don't think it has a clear answer.
In this hypothetical wouldn't the boogies and Kulacks would be in Gulags already? A bunch would be willing to sign on if it meant they might get an early release after the war. No draft necessary.
draft is precisly because of that necessary , its put a general price on "Imperial adventure" while proffessional army will recruit itself from the lower classes and can be spend easly (they choose soo ) , its a bad as its forces the underprivledge to die for an empire whos fruits the privledge eat , while avoiding the blood...
Lack of a draft is almost directly and solely responsible for the current quagmire of the US military - when we had a draft, normal people were pulled and had to serve with other normal people. They had real lives to go back to. They had family and friends who would listen to them and write their representatives to complain if the use of those human resources was inappropriate. Seeing body bags flying home and a televised razing of a foreign jungle turned a lot of people off from war. And they made their voices heard.
Now, the only people being asked to pay attention are career military professionals. They often do not have a job or life outside of the military to tie them to normal life. They've also gotten smarter about where they fly corpses in, so the news can't provide a solid day-by-day count of the wasted lives. These folks aren't pushing back against the worst excesses of the military, because their college benefit or their pension require them to shut up and just do what they're told.
There's a great documentary called Sir! No, Sir! about the vibrant protest movement from within the military, driven mostly by draftees during Vietnam.
I don't disagree with your initial reasoning, but there's a different take that says that what we have allowed is for the worst of us to control the policy for all of us, with nearly no external oversight.
This is a difficult problem to solve for a society though. The army is needed, because it's what allows your country to exist. In time of peace, draft is really not optimal, because people are taken a year of their life for absolutely nothing. But the army need to keep its structure alive and functioning, or there'll be nothing when it's needed.
The army of professionals is a good solution, and they do a hard job to keep an important piece of the state alive when no one cares about it.
Ultimately I think it's better if poor people make the core of the army because it means ultimately the safety of the nation is in their hands. Still, culture of the military men should be better taken care of, and elitism of the command structure should be fought.
Being in a country with a very high population means you have the privilege of enough volunteers to protect your borders.
Oh hey, an actual Fascist.
A bit fascist to assume that the only way to contribute to society is military service.
If you hate people leeching off the government, just wait until you hear about every single CEO and "Captain of Industry".
So essentially install a military dictatorship, because only the military gets any votes?
Mate, the Starship Troopers movie was a satire, not a fucking checklist.
So only able bodied men and women. Big yikes. Also people who aren't soldiers are leeches. Even bigger yikes.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
KYIV, Aug 11 (Reuters) - President Volodymyr Zelenskiy broadened his battle against graft on Friday, firing all the heads of Ukraine's regional army recruitment centres as the war with Russia enters a critical stage.
Zelenskiy said a state investigation into centres across Ukraine had exposed abuses by officials ranging from illegal enrichment to transporting draft-eligible men across the border despite a wartime ban on them leaving the country.
Ukraine has made cracking down on graft a priority as it fends off Russia's full-scale invasion and seeks membership of the European Union and has fired or prosecuted a string of high-ranking officials implicated in sleaze.
Zelenskiy said that any sacked army recruitment officers who are not being investigated should head to the front to fight for Ukraine "if they want to keep their epaulettes and prove their dignity".
Videos purporting to depict army recruiters aggressively pursuing or becoming violent with would-be draftees have gone viral on social media in the country, which has been under martial law since the invasion.
Zelenskiy said top general Valery Zaluzhny would be responsible for implementing Friday's decision and that new candidates for the posts would first be vetted by Ukraine's domestic security service, the SBU.
I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Misses important bit;
"This system should be run by people who know exactly what war is and why cynicism and bribery during war is treason," he said, adding that those fired would be replaced by recent veterans and soldiers wounded at the front.
Got laid off because I didn’t beat up and kidnap enough young men off the streets and send them to boot camp
That's not a good sign for Ukraine in what is an attrition war. Even their own military is making plans to smuggle their men out if the country because they don't want to send them to the death trap that is the heavily reinforced WW1 like frontlines. And Zelensky's response is just to fire and try replace the people doing that, instead of looking as to why that is happening. If the counter offensive tactics are so dire that your own military is doing corruption to avoid sending men to the front, maybe that needs reassessment.
Zelenskiy said a state investigation into centres across Ukraine had exposed abuses by officials ranging from illegal enrichment to transporting draft-eligible men across the border despite a wartime ban on them leaving the country.
I don't think you're necessarily wrong, and I'm certainly no expert. However, I do know that Ukraine has long struggled with corruption, and has been making slow progress over the past couple of decades. And they will always have (there are always, in any conflict) a certain level of partisanship in their own ranks.
I've been mildly concerned about what could happen after the invasion; assuming Ukraine is successful, Zelenskyy's popularity could make it easy for him to transition into a dictatorship. However, so far I've seen little to indicate that he's anything other than a sincere, effective, and passionate leader -- I like the guy, and I'm inclined to trust his judgement. He's done unexpectedly well so far, and Ukraine under his leadership has been acting up to the highest ethical ideals of the EU.
Maybe Ukraine leadership is making a mistake, but maybe they know something us armchair Generals don't.
Ukraine under his leadership has been acting up to the highest ethical ideals of the EU.
I agree with this sentence but I think we have very different ideas of what the "ethical ideals of the EU" are.
if you ukraine were to win the war (and they won't) whatever remains of their economy is going to be crippled by its accumulating debts. a lot of the 'aid' they've received—from the 'highly ethical' EU among others—consists of loans that are to be paid back in full and with interest.
and we already know what the cost of these foreign ''aid'' packages are; privatization (already well under way—ukraine even has their own website); austerity; lower wages; poorer working condition; a crackdown on labor rights and organizing (like banning left-wing parties in your country, which zelensky has already done), etc.
Ukraine under his leadership has been acting up to the highest ethical ideals of the EU.
Doesn't seem very ethical to me to ban your opposition parties for being left wing.
has been making slow progress over the past couple of decades
Zelensky was literally in the Pandora Papers lmao
You don't see his pandering to the EU as stumbling backwards into this whole situation in the first place?
I understand that it comes across as provocative, but from what I understand about his (attempted) maneuvering over the past couple years, he's kind of a spineless and weak leader who trusted the wrong side and got his country embroiled in a massive conflict.
NATO and the US are not trustworthy allies, and they let him talk up "Ukraine joining NATO ", a very dangerous thing to do, but I don't believe they had any intention of letting them in at any point. Zelensky should have understood this.
Ukraine is fucked. As others have pointed out, western vultures are already carving it up via mass privatization (though they may be disappointed with what’s left when the war is over). The “counteroffensive” went nowhere and whether Russia marches all the way to Odessa is really just a question of if they want to at this point. The war was lost before it started and Ukraine will be lucky if it doesn’t get annexed to pieces by Poland et al in the coming months. Best case it keeps some manner of territorial integrity and limps along as a failed state. Not sure Zelensky deserves all the blame for this disaster, as the wheels were in motion at least as early as 2014, but they definitely bet on the wrong horse here.
I've seen little to indicate that he's anything other than a sincere, effective, and passionate leader
Zelenski is a trained actor.
Did you see any signs Jack Gleeson wasn't a petty psychotic little shit in Game of thrones? He's actually a pretty cool guy in real life.
A question, do you truly think the Netherlands or Denmark would honestly let Ukraine join the EU? When they are already moaning about Romania and Bulgaria? Its a pipedream to sell Ukrainians on copium.
Zelenskyy’s popularity could make it easy for him to transition into a dictatorship
Yes and no. His poll numbers surged from about 30% to 88% after the invasion but Ukrainians want a EU path and Dictator Zelenzkyy would be in the way of that. He could certainly win another term in a landslide and do a de Gaulle but I kinda doubt he's even interested in that, he certainly wasn't terribly ecstatic about it before the war and with how things are looking martial law is going to continue past the election date, that is, there's going to be no elections. Meaning that at the end of it all there's going to be a Zelenskyy who's first going to take a vacation, and then do another season of servant of the people. Opening scene: Goloborodko wins the elections against the incumbent, a comedian who saved the nation from calamity due to sheer stupid luck (something about an asteroid if I remember my season 1 right). Finally, someone with proper qualifications in office again, a history teacher!
No you don't understand this actually means they're winning even harder putler St Petersburg slava unazi
Because they don't need any more recruits, right?
Because they don't need any more recruits, right?
It's cause of massive corruption and bribes allowing the upper class to avoid being drafted, Zelenskyy needs more blood for his blood god (NATO) and his corrupt little underlings are clogging up the works
I hope to God they get sent to the very fucking front. Every last one of them. It made me sick watching videos of these cowards kidnapping men on the streets, beating the shit out of them, then forcing them into the army while taking bribes from rich people to leave them alone. Then to watch videos of those brand new recruits getting obliterated in bradleys and MRAPS by artillery.
I seriously hope each of these fucking murderers steps on a land mine or gets their air and life ripped out of their lungs by a thermobaric rocket.
I knew from reading the headline that Hexbear's horde of mouthbreathers would show up to brigade and spread their propaganda. Sure enough, here we are
Edit: You guys really are just proving my point lmao
Learn how federation works
I think they know quite well how it works, and hexbear. Hence the comment.
Learn how defederation works
Yep, and choosing who to federate with is part of it. GTFO.
Brigading is whenever a Hexbear user uses the site like literally everybody else that got here.
what happened to
?Brigading is when you federate and use the federation
federation isn't brigading. a post shows up in our feeds, we click on it and comment because helping people dodge the draft is cool and good. We're one of the largest instances, and the consensus we have on issues like "conscription is bad" should not be taken as coordination on the part of hexbear users. If we did deliberately coordinate we'd all link you clowns to the thread where we did it because it would be funny.
No but it's weird that I never see any comments supporting Ukraine from hexbear users. Like the country was invaded, there is evidence of massive human rights atrocities. It is beyond the pale that so many people would just coincidentally celebrate every piece of bad news for the people being invaded and spin everything negatively against them. One would expect some diversity of opinions from any reasonably large instance but hexbear users all act like pro-russian trolls.
Main Character Syndrome is symptomatic of lib-brain. SAD!
Never heard of hexbear but why does an instance that claims to be leftist use Trump memes and back Russia?
Brigading is when a post shows up in your all tab and you comment on it
I'm just here to laugh at bazinga dorks crying for mods
we've been doing lemmy shit for 3 years, youre brigading
Every wonder why this kind of liberal belief never just naturally develops in new communities like ours? Notice how they always have to insert themselves from outside and takeover modding to have any relevance? Yeah, that.
Idk if "commenting on a post from another instance that showed up in my feed because the instance I use is federated with that instance" is brigading.
No you dont understand, if I dont want you here then youre a PEST whose ATTACKING ME so you need to leave, mkay?
The wild canuck rages, for it has no values or culture to share
Dismiss the propaganda then?
If you're so eager to defend a military conscription/draft, why don't you go and fight on the frontline yourself? This whole article is about Zelenskyy cracking down on Ukrainian citizens avoiding the conscription because they don't want to be sent into the meat grinder that is the heavily fortified front lines.
It's always those that face the least consequences from war that are the most eager for it to continue.
They're happy to have eastern men die forced into it and were probably the same people happy to shame them for trying to flee not to die. I'm so heartbroken for the androcide so happily encouraged by libs. I've seen gross comments from lib men how they will be happy to take over Ukrainian windows. Their kind is rotten to the core. :(
Oh the tired arguments of ruzzians.
This is about cracking down on leaders who haven't thrown out leaders under them who have been corrupt.
This is a good thing.
And that whole argument: why aren't you on the frontlines is so tired, and didn't make sense in the first place.
Who wants an old Norwegian who barely knows both Russian and Ukrainian on the frontlines when he can be at home financing drones and telling his government to step up support?
Oh man, that brings me back to the days when r/cth used to brigade other subs. Those were the times.
Never thought I'd live long enough to see it again...
The best part was that it was always just the fact we were all terminally online and saw the same frontpage threads as everyone else. It was (almost) never an actual brigade, just the result of having a bunch of very active posters with better politics than the average redditor. That's all it took to make the worst people on reddit
over being unable to consistently silence people with better opinions than their own.If you feel more comfortable in your bubble go back to it
Uh yeah... I'm thinvking it's hexbear time
Who's Hexbear?
Hexbear is a lemmy instance about the intersection of media, PR, and power, hosted by Nima Shirazi and Adam Johnson.
It's not a who, it's an instance: hexbear.net. It's also full of pro-Russia tankies.
Hexbear users rushing to bombard this comment with image reactions to say they're not brigading
Are hexbear users in this room right now?
You act like whining about other people being on the same website as you isn't incredibly toxic behavior that deserves to be bullied.
Hexbear has been on Lemmy longer than 99% of instances. Unfortunately we were only able to enable federation recently due to technical issues.
So how are hexbear users the brigaders? Using your logic, you are the brigaders lol.
You're exactly correct! Lmao
GOD i hate these STUPID hexbears SO much it makes my SKIN crawl... Sure hope they're not reading this thread and brigading you.. Eek!
Hexbear User here: where did you see people claim Putin's Russia being a bastion of leftism?
I've been interacting with them recently to see what they are all about and lmao I don't think I've ever had a dumber discussion in my life. Truly they are uniquely stupid.
"Opposing military conscription is stupid" and other hot takes from westerners that have never had to fight a war at home.
How is it stupid to oppose Zelenskyy's suicidal conscription polices? It makes Russia's mobilisation/conscription look pacifist by comparison.
imagine being a grown ass adult and taking the time to write this comment
My cats have learned the wirr motor sound of the feeder means food. So they'll run from whereever in the house at an motor sound. Suddenly like "it's food time right? Right? But the noise means food...." Regardless of any further context.
Same same but different with hexbear.