Oil money funded think tank finally gets it!

They say that like it's a bad thing.

What kills me is that this is a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts. The longer they fight against change, the more people they will convince that capitalism itself is the problem.

Maybe capitalism needs to suck it up and pull itself up by its bootstraps instead of needing subsidized fossil fuels. /s

↑ This, but without the /s.
In particular, we need to protect the free market by creating a carbon tax to compensate for fossil fuels' negative externalities and level the playing field for "greener" competitors.
Not taxing carbon is anti-capitalist protectionism.
- That or have the state stop giving money to corpos that definitely don't need it, or by breaking up monopolies just so fair competition can be a thing.
  Seriously, thinking that America's system is capitalist is just as stupid as thinking it's the land of the free

You don't need to end capitalism to help the climate.

Just properly regulate it. It's a tool just like every other economic system, and shouldn't be hoisted to a higher pedestal. Every system that fails fails because regulation falls off the wayside and leads into corruption. Capitalism's only strength is it took longer to get there because all the power was spread out for awhile.

That's a pretty shallow take on historic economics.
Capitalism had a role to serve as the transition out of feudal economics.
Now it's time to do better.
- Better as in what though?
  We've used every economic system by itself, and the only really successful version is a combination of them with proper regulation. What else do you do?
- So it's better just because the guy who created it said so?
  Like half of Marx's theories are gross oversimplifications that are definitely biased towards his point
regulation falls off the wayside and leads into corruption
And vice versa! Corruption leads to lack of regulation. It's a shit circular dance that I feel like we're doomed to repeat regardless of the economic system we pick.
- Corruption nearly always leads to more regulation but targeted against competitors.
- Lack of regulation? I'd say it creates even more regulation to keep corruption going
Agreed. Capitalism is a horrible master but a good slave. Just like we regulated the other forces of nature (like fire) to harness them in our favour, so should we harness market forces to work for us.
Capitalism works well when there is plenty of potential for growth, but when there are non-monetary reasons (such as the literal end of ecosystems favorable to human life) that require adjustments or even degrowth, it quickly devolves into feudalism - and the problem is that we do not have the means to quickly stop CO2 emissions without tightening our belts in energy consumption, which in turn requires some degree of degrowth.
Regulation? Sounds like communism to me
- Regulating is definitely not like a command economy
You don’t need to end capitalism to help the climate. Just properly regulate it.
Except that politicians (i.e. those that would be doing the regulating) all have a price, and for oil barons no price is too high; and bribing is still magnitudes cheaper than stopping the destruction of the environment.
It's a tool just like every other economic system, and shouldn’t be hoisted to a higher pedestal.
If it's not objectively better nor special, why not try something more equitable that doesn't siphon 99% of all resources to the ~~aristocracy~~ elite and leaves everyone else fighting for the crumbs?
Why keep using a system that prescribes that the hungry should starve if they can't afford food even though we already produce more than enough to feed the whole planet?
Yeah, we need regulation but no direct intervention like the state is currently doing to protect monopolies.
Like, make some rules to keep competition fair but don't go to specific companies to protect them

Is there a lemmy equivalent to /r/SelfAwareWolves? Because this fits.

Make it and crosspost!
- Ah, it exists: !selfawarewolves@lemmy.ml

selfawarewolves material

The two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. It's just that capital would grow slower. You can have a green capitalism. It just that no one invested in that

- I'm sorry but you missed the memo that polluting is free
"Green capitalism" only exists if green energy is more profitable than climate-harming alternatives
Given the multiple decades of oil and gas infrastructure, that's not realistic.
In theory, consumer demand for green energy could make this a reality, but it would have to be a massive swing. And in practice, most consumers will go for the cheapest option - in many cases, given their resources, they have to.
The other way that green energy could become more profitable is through heavy government regulation. So... yeah you could have a green 'capitalism' if the State manages the market, and withstands the corporate pressure to withdraw. But that has literally happened nowhere
I suppose hypothetically you could argue that IF a company invested heavily in green technology and IF that investment resulted in a cheaper form of energy, AND that technology also applied to the supply chain, then we could have green capitalism. But i mean that's highly speculative and it also would be entirely a coincidence
No, ethical capitalism is unattainable. The whole point of capitalism is that it rewards greed, so the people at the top of the pyramid will always be the most greedy, and greedy people will always prioritize what makes the most money, not what is right.

But as you said, activists often use climate change as an excuse for "overthrowing capitalism" and replacing it with a "dictatorship of the proletariat", and I think this tweet is actually referencing this rather than thinking it to be the logical conclusion

"Think tank" as in circlejerk.

I miss r/PragerUrine. Par for the course for a right wing cesspool

Is there a c/toiletpaperusa?
- hey friend I'm new to lemmy. is c/ the new r/ ? like is it denoting the subreddit name? sublemmy?

They're yet another cancer on society...
The mothers days day after I had a baby, they sent me a book in the mail about a boy and a dog (I think the dogs name was Otto) celebrating mothers. It was weird but historically accurate. They said that one of the founding fathers mother was a good mother because she taught the founding fathers the bible. Im not sure what to do with the book... Donate it?
- I love animals. I hate mosquitoes. If one gets in my house I'll hunt it down and smash it gleefully. Then apologize and tell it I feel bad because it didn't choose to be born a mosquito
  Same for this book. I love books and feel they should be respected, but perhaps this one is like a mosquito and maybe should be disposed of into the recycling
- Burn it.
This was the final straw for me to finally get off FB, toooooooo many (unhinged) "friends" quoting PU as facts & citing them as a source. Pure propaganda garbage.

Honest question, what economic or political system exists out there that would be better for climate change?

Or is the assumption that system doesn’t exist yet?

Any system that has some growth built into it will eventually cause problems, it's just that some of them, like capitalism, are very efficient at getting us to these points faster. The best system for the climate was discarded long ago, as we moved out of the hunter-gather phase and discovered techniques in maximizing our energy into other things besides just surviving. Agriculture and all that it allowed were the first steps into taxing the earth's balance.
If you want to avoid saying socialism, communism, or true communism (anarchism) then try library economy or gift economy. Some nice examples I've heard.
- Except that some of the absolute worst ecological tragedies in the modern world were done in socialist systems, largely because they were inefficient, central planning made it more effective, and people couldn't say no or mitigate it. I honestly think that people use socialism as a catch-all to be a system where they can force through the changes they would prefer to see in the world.
  Meanwhile, some of the most effective ecological mitigations of the modern world were done through legislation and regulation of a capitalist system. Example: the banning of CFCs and water management.
  It's largely our growth as a population that's caused the issues and it requires drastic action at all levels to live within our means. We can live more sustainably and we are getting there but it does require an efficient system and an educated populous. That results in better regulations on markets that can account for externalities.
  Poisoning the waterhole hurts everyone regardless of the system. There needs to be consequences put in place for doing so, and by the international nature of the problem, it requires treaties to get all systems aligned. That takes time and effort and we are getting there.
- I guess where I get thrown off by statements like this is thinking of socialist and communist examples of recent history. They all seem to consume as fast as their capacity allows, never seems that different from capitalism. I know a lot of examples aren’t perfect representations of that economic style, but closest examples we have. Just always seemed to me the idea of eliminating capitalism to heal climate change should be, eliminate all systems we currently have in favor of something new.
  Library economy sounds interesting
I think one way to make capitalism suck less would be abolishing publicly owned corporations. Having shareholders to please creates pressure to grow the company's value even when there is no good reason to. I think it would be far better if companies stayed as family owned mom and pop shops and weren't allowed to snowball.
Remember that the only reason for the enshittification of Reddit is that it's doing an IPO. Likewise, I recently noticed that the company that owns my local mini golf course is publicly traded. Since the course has already been built there is no room for meaningful growth and any attempt to grow the company's value by turning visits into an 'experience' or a 'package day out' will irritate people like me who are just looking to pay to use a barbones course.

aaannnd?

Best comedy website ever

Does compromise with a death cult ever work? Whether they're racists, fascists, religious zealots, capitalist profiteers, or any other group that devalues human life, it doesn't seem like compromise works or is even a possibility.
That reply is, frankly, both stupid and ignorant.
Hard to find a common ground when the other person is not believing in climat change or that we have to do anything and it will not magically sort it self out.
No one listenend to those people, the issue has been known at least for the last 50 years, there was enough time for compromises, but nearly nobody cared.
So now we're here.
If I believed that our current system will be the cause for the extinction of my species, how could I still make a compromise with someone who still lives and thinks like it's 1960?
The slaves really should have just compromised with the slave owners/s

patriarchy too, pal.. might as well learn it now..

What's a tankie?
- Originally, it was used to describe those who defended the use of tanks to stop the Hungarian revolution 1956 (i think)
  Now its used to describe those that align with Marxism-leninism (also i think)
- Loaded question is going to get loaded answers but:
  Marxist-identifying people who like to glorify oppressive regimes, usually Stalin's USSR and Mao's China. Fascists disguised as communists.
Lmao classic political elitist logic: if you’re not going after the biggest problem directly you’re doing it wrong
Talk about a smooth brain lol
Can you provide a source for China being most polluting per cap?
I know China has more pollution but also they're the most populous which means they'll pollute a lot.
But China is far from most polluting per cap.
Qatar is #1 With China's carbon pollution per capita being HALF of that of the USA
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/co2-per-capita-marimekko?tab=table
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/annual-co2-emissions-per-country?tab=table&time=2021..2021
https://www.worldometers.info/co2-emissions/co2-emissions-per-capita/

Same energy

prageru being based 😩😩🤤🤤🤤😩🤤😩🤤😩

Uh huh