Tesla's European car sales nosedive for fifth month as customers switch to Chinese EVs

I would say go with whatever company that doesn't have a CEO throwing Nazi salutes.

Yeah, the Chinese manufacturers are out to make money, and at least we know what to expect from them.

Besides, being profitable usually means making a better product than your competitors.
- GASP!
  
  You mean... Proper capitalism!?
  
  Okay there's a ton of spyware in the car, but - just . . don't . . . connect it. Or whatever.
  
  Which of them are you talking about?
  
  Yes
  
  Right.
  
  I suspect you know this, and your post is sarcastic. But just in case:
  
  Most cars have their own embedded SIMs nowadays. They're already connected. You can't disconnect them.
  
  No, I haven't bought a new car in many many years.
  
  That's absolutely unacceptable. I would have the dashboard pulled out in minutes. Wherever the modem is, it wouldn't be there for long.
  
  Hahahah, fuse go brrrr.
  
  Jokes aside, they probably shut off the car if it can't phone home within a certain time period.
  
  That's equivalent to buying a subscription to a car. I would never buy that car. That's koo koo bananapants unsane.
  
  Of course, I don't have a facepals account either so - what do i know.
  
  Yeah. I have a car that has telemetry. Sucks for privacy, but if I was going to commit a crime, I would just ******************************************************************************, use the system to obfuscate the data.
  
  And you think ICE cars don't have spyware these days?
  
  I dunno, ICE cars weren't on my list to start with. I assume.
- I don't know that they're out to make money though. A lot of the Chinese manufacturers are now struggling due to the price war they instigated themselves. Huge production surplus but they pushed down the price so much they hardly make any money
  
  I think a lot of it is also growing their market share and establishing their brand.
  
  Brand recognition is important, but it's a dangerous game operating mostly on government subsidies. Once you have established low prices it's hard to reverse it
  
  Competition is fierce, but they are not exactly struggling due to government subsidies/incentives. These are so extreme that Chinese manufacturers are over producing and dumping "used" EVs with zero mileage for export.
  
  Similar to US agricultural dumping, this is a terrible policy for everyone, except for the beneficiaries of the subsidies, and maybe the overseas consumers who get cheap EVs in the short term.
  
  China's Zero-Mile 'Used' EVs Are Flooding Global Markets - https://insideevs.com/news/763687/china-zero-mile-used-evs/
i am afraid it is just that most CEOs are sane enough to keep their embarrassing moments for their private life. do you think musk is the only narcissistic psychopath on drugs in the business world?

this is not advocating for musk, but it is important to be grounded in reality ;)
- I have no doubt most CEOs are psychopaths, but they also don't own a global Nazi mouthpiece like twitter, or have more money and resources than several small nations.
  
  Feet firmly planted in reality, thanks. You definitely sound like your advocating for musk.
  
  I would say go with whatever company that doesn't have a CEO throwing Nazi salutes.
  
  I have no doubt most CEOs are psychopaths, but they also don't own a global Nazi mouthpiece like twitter
  
  So did you mean "CEOs not throwing a Nazi salute" or "CEOs whose Nazi salutes don't show up on your twitter feed"?
  
  It seems you forgot what your argument is in a span of two rebuttals
  
  You definitely sound like your advocating for musk.
  
  You should work on your reading comprehension then
- To be fair, I think most of USA is on recreational drugs, legal, illegal, or “prescription”. That shouldn’t matter as much compared to his other actions.
  
  what he does in his free time is one thing (i don't care about that), being high when he is ~~working for a government~~ ruining people's lives and jobs is another.

Root for better public transport and active cities instead of car dependency :)

The public transport bus I take to and from work is a Chinese made electric. It's a Yutong E15.
- I remember that one getting tested in my hometown.
- How common are these in Denmark? 😮 don't feel like I've seen one, but then again it's not like I study the make before I get in the bus
  
  This specific model I don't know, but in Copenhagen all public transport buses will be electric by the end of 2026.
i am lucky, my city has excellent public transport, that doesn't stop people from using cars though. be it because of pure habit, or because public transport is not solution for everything.

so i'd rather if our european car industry wasn't decimated by the chinese one.
Living in the boonies, I'm never going to get a bus going by every ten minutes so a solid market for good EVs is still what I root for.
- Of course, public transport has a limit and we can root for both as well, including protected bike lanes even in the boonies like we successfully see in the Netherlands
  
  I'm somewhat hopeful, in the last ten years, new and renovated country roads have been getting dedicated bike lanes behind the guardrails. Miles away from the excellent, completely separate infrastructure the dutch have, but its a start.

Competition is good for the consumer. More options from more players will encourage more charging infrastructure and (ostensibly) more innovation. It's not just Elon Musk vs China. Every automaker that wants to sell cars in the USA is on notice. If they want to compete in the EV subcategory, they need to focus on price and performance. People want budget-conscious EVs.

Not super into cars but is there even any reason other than environmental friendliness to get an EV? Where I'm from, EVs are all wildly expensive compared to their combustion peers and they all frankly look really ugly to me. The coil whine of the EVs also drive me crazy.
- Even the cheap ones accelerate faster, ride smoother, and are quieter. You don’t have to get oil changes, and the brakes don’t wear down as fast. Plus I can recharge at home, which is loads cheaper than buying gasoline.
  
  And this is all with a relatively ancient Nissan Leaf, the new vehicles are all far better.
  
  Oh, and let’s not forget that even very small air quality improvements have noticeable improvements in lung health! Humans were not meant to be breathing gasoline fumes or combustion exhaust.
  
  My government just added a controversial extra tax on EVs because they tear up the roads and cause additional particles, because they are really heavy and most of them have a better than usual torque.
  
  You can really see how road quality went to shit after EVs became mainstream.
  
  Making batteries is also a really ugly business and far from environmental.
  
  That is not even remotely why they added a tax on EVs. The reason they added the extra tax is because they make a ton of money by taxing gas and as EVs are gaining popularity they're starting to see their tax revenues plummet. There is a nugget of truth in that some of those tax revenues are used to pay for maintaining the roads and that EVs do still put wear and tear on the roads, but it's not that they're destroying roads any more than any other car does.
  
  If you're seeing a drop in road quality it's because your government isn't paying to have the roads maintained like they have in the past, not because there are more EVs driving around.
  
  *Puts on Rammstein - Amerika
  
  I live in an area where half the vehicles on the road are pickup trucks and giant SUV'S. A KIA EV2 isn't doing any added harm to the roads here.
  
  I can't find anything on such a tax?
  
  I feel like there has been an uptick in pro oil bots in the past week. Oil is a pretty ugly business too? What is wrong with you people.
  
  Bio gas and diesel are also renewable.
  
  If you are a moron, ya, it is.
  
  With average EU energy mix total carbon footprint of a biogas car is still only 3/4 of an equivalent electric vehicle after 10 years of use.
  
  Additional weight of the vehicle and the costly battery production matters.
  
  With average US east coast energy mix the EVs carbon footprint would be double that of a biogas car after 10 years of use.
  
  You are a mouthpiece, I'm going to assume everything you say is a lie or grossly misrepresented. Post your sources, bootlicker.
  
  Piip piip boop boop.
  
  Evil nordic bot coming at you.
- We are in the middle of a crisis. You don't need an other reason.
  
  You can either look ugly in an EV or drive straight towards dystopia in a cool looking ICE vehicle.
  
  I mean I'm personally a public transport kinda person. I live somewhere where a car is really just a status symbol since even the cheapest car costs at least roughly 90k USD and most people take public transport.
- Others have addressed your other questions, but I want to add that the "coil whine" that irritates you is probably the car's slow-moving warning system. EVs are effectively silent at slow speeds because there is no engine noise or road noise, so they are required to make an annoying sound when maneuvering to get your attention. While it is an important safety feature, I agree some are very obnoxious.
  
  I'm not sure if we're talking about the same sound as it's so high pitched that most people older than me are unable to even hear it while people my age or younger can clearly identify it. If that's supposed to be a warning system, it doesn't seem very good?
  
  I mean, it's also entirely possible you've heard a failing magnetic drive, a humming battery, or a squeeky mechanical thing like brakes or bearings. Those are all strong indicators of a significant problem with the car, and should be fixed immediately. But if you hear it every time, as soon as the car starts moving in a parking lot, that's the safety feature.
- With my cheap over night tarrif (UK) I pay approximately 2p a mile, I'm planning a road trip to Europe soon and have calculated with a pay for discount EV charge card, I'll average about 14p/mile. I'm saving between £60-£80 a month compared to my old diesel car, which pays off the charger install ~£900 in a year. Diesel price have dropped in the UK since I got mine.
  
  For servicing it's coolant every 3 years or so, and that pretty much it. We have a MOT in the UK, for every vehicle over 3 years old, then yearly, that covers more than what is needed on the yearly services for my car. Only thing it doesn't cover is lubricate the charge port, but I think I'm ok with that
  
  Also the cabin noise is almost silent, no gears, constant predictable acceleration, and I can plug anything I want in to the 240v outlet in the back seat
Competition is good for the consumer.

except what is happening now is not really any kind of fair competition. the european manufacturers exported they know-how to china, which was strategic failure, it was stolen, and now it is sold back to us with the advantage of cheap chinese production.

they will ruin our production and we will be in a similar situation where we were during covid, when the political leadership were saluting the china cargo airplanes on tarmac, otherwise it would not bring us masks, syringes, or any other stuff whose production we had given up and outsourced to china

unless we turn the ship around quite soon, we will be regretting it soon and for a long time.

The article title is a bit sensational. The share of the market for all Chinese EV is 5,6%. It’s not ( yet ? ) a tsunami.

Telsas total european market share this month is 1.2%, down from 1.8% last may. The chinese market share is 5.9%, not 5.6%.

5.9% vs 1.2% is a 5x sales rate for chinese cars versus Teslas. According to the article, china doubled its EU market share in the last year, while Tesla lost 30% of its market share in the same time period.

The title is not sensational. If anything, your comment is a bit misleading by not listing the tesla EU market share.
- You are comparing Tesla, a full electric car maker to « Chinese cars » which includes multiple brands and all engine types. Only one-third of the cars that the Chinese carmakers sold in Europe during the first quarter were electric.

It would be nice if there was a way to rip out any questionable software/electric components from modern cars and replace it with something open source.

Buy european? I mean if that's an option.

There are lots of EVs by European car manufacturers. The problem is that they have trouble competing on price with the Chinese ones.
- You' ve been explained this whole scenario years ago when Putin was pushing for Europe from Lisbon to Vladivostok.
  
  That was EU chance to get dirt cheap energy and raw materials.
  
  And now - EU heavy industry is dying, car manufacturers are sold to China one by one. Decision made decade+ ago.
  
  You’ ve been explained this whole scenario years ago when Putin was pushing for Europe from Lisbon to Vladivostok.
  
  That was EU chance to get dirt cheap energy and raw materials.
  
  what?