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Good job to all of the fucks who stayed home because of Gaza, thinking that not voting and letting the GOP rise to power would actually help the situation.
Yeah, because Netanyahu's extreme right-wing policy was a problem with the US's left-wing party, right?
Millions of people stayed home. I really doubt Gaza was the reason for all of them.
Urgh, even now before the votes are all in (this will take weeks to finalize) this election was the second biggest turnout since 1932. I hate living in this "post truth" world where everyone just goes off of feelings and emotions. People turned up, for trump.
What feelings and emotions? Trump got 72.6 million votes so far this year. He got 74.2 in 2020. That's 1.5 million voters right there. Biden got 81.2 million votes. Harris got 68 million votes. That's 13 million votes difference.
And most elections get in the 60% +-5 range voter turnout.
So...yeah... 1/3 of the population doesn't bother to vote.
Yes, 1/3 does not vote. In any election (hell what do local elections hit? 30%) My point is it does not help just pulling the 2020 numbers since those are literally the record numbers of all time. This election was right on the money for turnout, not low, not really super high.
Blaming voter turnout would require some evidence that voters did not turn out. And in this case Trump won the popular vote, so 2016s electoral college crap is not in play. This election could be cheated (how would I know at this point one way or the other) but my money is on the Democratic party just face planted harder then in 2016.
The original comment to which you replied said "Millions of people stayed home. I really doubt Gaza was the reason for all of them."
We've agreed that millions of people did stay at home. So I don't see the problem. Yes, they often stay at home. That's the problem. When it's two of more of the same it's more understandable. But both sides have been pretty clear about what's at stake. And they still stayed home. That's it. And you've agreed that 1/3 of the people didn't vote.
Not sure how the op was untruthful or misleading or based in any way "off of feelings and emotions".
Millions of people chose to allow this to happen. And yeah, Gaza wasn't the reason.
Yeah the reason was that the public is tired, but no more then normal. Blaming this on voter turnout due to a single issue is..... silly. I agree with the first statement but not the idea that this election had low turnout, this was a referendum on the status quo. The result was clear (not one that will be good) and this post truth finger pointing just pisses me off, the race was not even close. Do you think if another 15 million people got off the couch they would have not voted for Trump? That is just about as arrogant as you can get.
Meh...dunno.. even the stupidest of the people I've spoken to have agreed that trump is bad and were outraged by some of the stuff he said/did. And people always claim that when people show up to vote, the Dems win. Not a fact I've bothered to check, but it does work for the past few elections.
Yes, I would agree in the past. But in this case 15 million votes would have to be very strategically placed to change the outcome (basically worse then the gerrymandering the Republican party is called out for). I don't think people are rationally looking at these election numbers and are just falling back to the old rhetoric. For fun try and put 15 million votes down and change the result.
Ok, I didn't look at the states that Harris won, because that would've taken longer and complicated things.
Only looked at states that trump won.
Interesting fact: if you strategically place 12 million more votes, you can win literally every single state and secure all votes.
Most fun way to win (imo): 1.5 million in Texas for 40 votes and then another 1.5 million in Florida for another 30.
Most efficient points/voter states:
Michigan needed 80k for 15 votes
Georgia needed 120k for 16
Pennsylvania needed 145k for 19
And Nevada needed 52k for 6
For a grand total of 400k you'd get 56 votes that could've taken Harris from 226 to 282 and would've secured the win.
Other close calls:
North Carolina needed 200k for 16 votes
Arizona needed 140k for 11
Yes, and see how you need to play god to do this? Now lets say you only have 10 mil and a republican can do the same thing with another 10 mil? What if you could only move votes around?
This election was lost from those close call states, true. They could have in hindsight won this by getting 80k people in buses in Michigan and Nevada, but they did not do that.
My argument is what did the democrats have to lose for supporting Gaza/Palestinians? It's obvious not running a fully left facing candidate and campaign was a mistake.
We are mad at the wrong people. The reality of the situation is that the democrats can't win without the far left of the party. So why won't we extend an olive branch? If we get a next time, what are we going to do differently?! This is the reality. Either we wake up to that or keep losing. Pick one.
Fuck the people who didnt vote based on gaza. They are even dumber than Maga hats. They help the candidate that is even worse for gaza win . No one should offer these people any branches. Fuck them. Treat them like the idiots they are just like we do with MAGA.
Okay but if we are guaranteed to lose without them, what's the harm in giving them what they want? Losing while taking the morally right position is never wrong. We spit in the Arab/Muslim/Palestinians/far left Americans faces and they stayed home on election day. So what's the harm in at least giving into their demands? The Republicans do that for their base and are winning even when they lose elections. So I'm arguing a change in tactics because we are literally taking the insanity route if we don't.
They dont have the morally high ground. They chose to help a fascist get to power. These idiots should never get what they want since they have shown to be completely brain dead. But to get to your point better. Giving them what they want means losing all pro israel people to Trump. Staiying between both positions gets people from both sides. However you cannot give the pro palestine people in america what they want since many want a genocide against israel instead which is just as inacceptable as the status quo.
Uhhhh no... Just no... Most Palestinian Americans don't want genicide to go the other way... And the people living in Palestinian don't have the capability to even have running water, electricity, airforce or navy let alone the capability to do a genicide so just no. Pro Isreal / pro genicide people were going to vote for Trump regardless... How about a no genicide party? Is that too much to ask?
Difference between you and rational people is we are trying to get the best and not just the least worst people. I voted blue but it's obvious change is needed.
I feel bad for the Palestinians in Gaza of course. Not for their relatives in america who just helped put a fascist in power who will kill their relatives.
Anyone who didnt vote or voted for Stein is deserving of everything that will happen to them I hope their family in Palestine will cut them off because they have signed their life away.
And what's your solution to those with legitimate hangups? Sit behind a keyboard and call them idiots? There was no downside to being 100% anti genicide. There is no downside to be for universal health care. There's no downside to making education 100% free. There's no downside to fighting for income redistribution.
What's your solution to these real fucking problems? Because the democrats never truly tried any of these or even advocated for them. It's been this way since the new deal. A slow decay to Jim crow, women's suffrage, and xenophobia. We need new tactics because what you and the Democrat leadership is saying and doing isn't fucking working!
There is no solution. Idiots will stay idiots. They obviously dont give af about democracy or the lifes of anyone else but themselves.
As long as these idiots are alive they will keep handing the reigns to fascists who do exactly what the idiots punish the dems for.
All we can hope for is that american burns down quickly without too much damage to anyone else. So this time maybe something decent can be built on the remains.
Lol okay then way are voting. Why are you commenting? Rather than being proactive with a problem solving mindset you are just going to continue to do things that obviously don't work? This isn't some unavailable catastrophic outcome. This happened because people prefer to rip each other down than trying to lift each other up. If you aren't fighting for marginalized people everywhere, why do you get mad when they respond with apathy or anger when you demand they support your ideals? Everyone is copable in this presidential outcome. No one group or person is 100% to blame. My 2020 vote for Biden has blood on it and that doesn't sit well with me. I make up for it by doing more than just voting and insulting people on the internet. That's how you gain votes. Not whatever you are doing. The DNC could have let Palestinian Americans speak, but they didn't. They could have had a more left platform, but they didn't. This centrists agenda has a 33% success rate over the past three elections and when democracy is at stake can you really be calus to your base? I have history and facts on my side.
What's the definition of insanity?
Nothing is going to work to get people who fell for fascism back. These marginalized groups are the ones who suffer the most under Trumps fascism but doing what they did they deserve it. They obviously want it since they didnt mind handing the country to Trump.
The trump voters, non voters and third party voters are 100% to blame.
The democrats could be less right wing, sure. I wish they were. But it wouldnt have changed anything. Fascists and their enablers will not change. They want to take away peoples and their own freedoms.
They don't have the morally high ground. They chose to help a fascist get to power.
Kamala Harris, the Democratic Presidential Nominee, lost. Because of her poor campaign tactics, she allowed a fascist to get into power. Are you equally upset with her for not doing what it takes to stop fascism?
If not, why was the "right answer" for this election to support Israel when we know that she lost following that tactic, and not supporting Palestine?
Obviously I am upset with Harris and her campaign. Since she became the candidate I have been critiquing her.
The right answer is not allowing a fascist to be elected. Supporting Israel is what Trump did too and even worse than Harris. Any pro Palestine voter with a brain would see that Harris is better for them.
Now they deserve everything Trump will do to them.
Supporting Israel is what Trump did too and even worse than Harris.
So the key to beating fascism in your mind was to platform the same policies, but a little less? What do you actually think Harris should have done differently that would have helped her win the election? Because clearly, doing the same thing but slightly less bad didn't work this time.
The key to defeat fascism is not voting for fascism. Nothing Harris could have done would have changed anything. American voters and non voters want fascism more than a female president.
I called it 4 mths ago. Putting her up was a mistake. They either needed to stay with Biden or better yet, have him not run again and pick a white man as candidate.
Even then it would have been hard with so many people choosing fascism and choosing not to prevent fascism.
The key to defeat fascism is not voting for fascism.
Are you implying Harris was also fascist, or are you just complaining that not enough people voted for her? If it's the first, then fine. But if it's the second, what do you think Harris could have done to earn more votes?
Or are you saying that racism and misogyny in the US is just that much stronger than our anti-fascist beliefs? That there's no amount of good policy and campaign promises that a woman could give that would ever be enough to beat fascism?
Every person who did not vote for Harris chose fascism.
However you cannot give the pro palestine people in america what they want since many want a genocide against israel instead
You are inventing straw men. No one seriously expects this of Harris, and there is a lot of room between 'reverse genocide' and what the Biden/Harris admin did.
If you give in to the "Gimme what I want or I want fascism" crowd they will keep asking for more. Many are already demanding Israel to be dissolved. So fuck these people. I will not shed a tear for them when they cry because Trump flattened all of Gaza.
Whooeee, scratch a lib eh?
Foreign policy is so far from a motivating factor for this country, why can't you just accept that the democrats are a failure of a party? They went further and further right looking for the 'Liz Cheney vote' and lost the popular vote because of it.
I'm not a lib. I am left.
The dems made stupid shit. I said so. It doesnt remove the blame of the fascists voting for Trump and the fascist enablers not voting to prevent Trump
Are we. Is that what the demos say? Don't think black men and Latinos care about Gaza. The far left is so finicky and small
There is no left and esp. no far left in america.
Not any more there isn't. And soon, in the next few years, we'll see a systematic elimination of any remaining opposition, by means of oppression, suppression, and even more violent means.
There never was a left in america. What you call left os conservative in every country with a real political spectrum
A good number of left-wing politicans in my country would be considered right-wing in the USA.
So what’s the harm in at least giving into their demands?
If people refused to vote because both candidates support Israel, then whose to say that suggesting to withdraw that support wont make an equal or greater number of people to then vote for the candidate who does?
I don't think it's mutually exclusive. Why can't we be mad the the DNC for shit strategy and be mad at the folks who stayed home?
Because we're only allowed to hold one idea in the brain at a time.
For a lot of people, "allowed" can be replaced with "able".
Tbh, there’s a very dark part of me that makes me just want sit back, watch Gaza and the West Bank get fully reduced to rubble, and all the Palestinians getting put into woodchippers, and just smirk while saying “wow, good thing we dodged a Harris administration. Who knows what that would have meant for Palestine.”
We know libs have been saying that for nearly a year.
Oh look, "scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds" right here!
Fucking chat bots convinced enough dipshits to stay home that our country was taken by fascists. Humanity is doomed.
So you want me to reward holocaust Harris and genocide joe for not doing ANYTHING to stop it? No, I chose to teach them a lesson. Don't blame us. Blame the dems for not doing enough and putting a shit candidate.
What lesson exactly? That if the ideal candidate isn't run, a subset of liberals will pick the worse of two options?
All that does is teach the conservatives that if they can convince you that the democrat candidate fails you enough on a single issue, they effectively have your vote. Regardless of the conservative candidate's stance on that issue.
You have made the choice to make the problem you care about profoundly worse because there wasn't a way to make it completely better. Have fun watching that play out as you intended I guess.
To teach that supporting genocide is a red line and not doing anything about it will not get you elected.
Ah, genocide at home, in Gaza AND possibly in Ukraine instead.
Genius!
Delusional take. I'll see you in 4 years when no genocide occurred here in America.
Even before Trump is in office, his cabinet picks don't exactly inspire confidence in his reign to be any better than Harris' likely would've been.
Curious.
No, I chose to teach them a lesson.
The only lesson you taught them is that the general public wants more right-wing ideas. What you've done is teach trans, blacks, and other minorities a lesson, the lesson that they should be beaten and driven out of their country. You've taught that women should be submissive, treated like property, like they are in Saudi Arabia.
Good job. I hope you reflect on your "lesson" in the next four years, as your right to vote is systematical dismantled.
trans, blacks, and other minorities
To be fair, a good number of people voted for Trump because of identity politics as well
Gloating as the Palestinians receive news that help isn't coming is something that someone who cares more about their own image than a genocide would do.
And where am I gloating exactly? I'm simply stating that you shouldn't blame the voters but blame the dems for standing for genocide. Not like if harris was elected it would have been any better for the Palestinians.
I'd rather lose my hearing than vision if those are the only two options, despite not actually wanting to lose neither - which is not an option.
Lose both, then you can shamelessly shift blame rather than risk having to bear any kind of responsibility that comes with using the remaining option.
These people are as detached from reality as the MAGA crowd if they think they're taking any kind of moral high road by staying home.
Yeah, that'll teach the do-nothing-dems!!1