NYPD shot four people - including two bystanders one who is in critical condition - and another cop over a $2.90 fare.
NYPD shot four people - including two bystanders one who is in critical condition - and another cop over a $2.90 fare.
Four people were injured Sunday afternoon at a Brooklyn subway stop in what started as officers’ attempts to apprehend a man accused of skipping the station turnstile.
Police opened fire on a subway platform in Brooklyn during a confrontation with an alleged fare-beater, striking the man cops said was armed with a knife, two straphangers caught in the fray, and one of the firing officers, NYPD officials said Sunday.
One of those two passengers hit by the cops' bullets, a 49-year-old man, was hospitalized in critical condition after he was hit struck in the head, according to the NYPD.
The two officers who opened fire were assigned to patrol the Sutter Avenue subway stop in the 73rd precinct when they spotted a man skip the station turnstile and walk through an open gate toward the train platform, Chief of Department Jeffrey Maddrey explained at an evening press conference from Brookdale Hospital.
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I am waiting for former cop PR man Adams' defense of the cops with bated breath.
It sounds like the guy had a knife and threatened to use it. It also sounds like the cops tried to taze the guy first, but it didn't work.
We can argue whether the cops really needed to shoot the guy. But they weren't shooting at a fare evader, they were shooting at a guy with a knife who also happened to jump the turnstile.
I'd argue that the real problem is that the cops didn't know how to de-escalate the situation without shooting. It's like the tazer was their only "non-lethal" option, and when that didn't work, they panicked. (I could also believe that they were simply incompetent, and couldn't work the tazer properly.)
The guy only threatened to use the knife after they stopped him for turnstile jumping. If the New York subway didn't have turnstiles (the L.A. subway doesn't), most people would still pay their fares. Most people understand that their fares keep the trains running. There was no need for this. At all.
I should say that there are transit cops that check tickets in L.A. If you don't have one, all they do is escort you out of the station. And this is the LAPD we're talking about.
The guy only threatened to use the knife after they stopped him for turnstile jumping.
I should say that there are transit cops that check tickets in L.A. If you don't have one, all they do is escort you out of the station. And this is the LAPD we're talking about.
The first step to "escorting you out of the station" is stopping you, is it not?
My whole point is that the cops didn't get belligerent until he pulled the knife. It also sounds like he might have boarded a train with the knife out, too. (It was the L train, though, I'm sure the riders have seen worse.)
They didn't start shooting because he jumped the turnstile. I bet if he didn't have a knife they would have just wrote him a ticket and made him leave.
You dont think your LA cops would have treated their fare evader a bit differently if he pulled a knife?
Yes, stopping you to say, "can I see your ticket?" If the person without a ticket runs, where are they going to run to? Back on the train that just left? They can't do that. Out of the station? That's where they were going to be taken anyway. It's not worth the cops' time in L.A. like it apparently is in New York.
Again, this shit doesn't happen there.
But it sounds like the guy said "I'm gonna kill you if you don't stop following me", then hopped on the train with the knife out. You think the cops in LA would have let him do that?
You show me when this sort of situation has ever happened in L.A.
Because believe me, there are plenty of crazies with knives in L.A. too.
Didn't it literally just happen there like two weeks ago when LAPD TSD used force against someone evading fare and they ran, jumped onto the tracks, and were then electrocuted and run over by a train?
LA metro rail has yearly ridership of a little less than 62 million.
NYC has yearly ridership of over 1.3 BILLION.
These aren't remotely the same systems.
These aren’t remotely the same systems.
You don't get to pretend two train systems are not similar because you write BILLION in all caps and bold.
Thank you, by the way, for so clearly representing yourself in your post history. You're doing this old man a service by making it so obvious that you are continually arguing in bad faith.
K
The LA subway has turnstiles. Most people don’t pay. I’d watch maybe 2/3rds of people skip payment by using the wheelchair/bike turnstile. They would do it in front of cops.
They are starting to enforce fares again though.
If they have turnstiles, that is something they added since I lived there a decade ago.
They have the simple waste-high turnstile at every subway stop. At above-ground locations they don’t have these. They have been there for 15 years or longer.
There are no full height “man trap” turnstiles if that’s what you’re talking about.
I took the train from NoHo to downtown or Long Beach all the time and I do not remember turnstiles. In fact, I remember wondering where they were the first time I did it.
Noho as of this summer now requires you to tap to unlock the turnstile to exit too. They are expanding this to other red/B line stops.
DTLA 7th/Fig has definitely always had turnstiles.
Long Beach has not had turnstiles.
tap to unlock the turnstile to exit too.
When he got there the conductor told him "one more nickel," Charlie couldn't get off of that train
Yes, let's look to the LAPD for better policing practice. Wow.
That was my point though. Even the LAPD isn't this bad.
Do we actually know if he had a knife? Initial reporting was that the police knew he had a knife because he refused to take his hands out of his pockets. While he did threaten them, it was contingent upon them continuing to follow them. He did not actually attack them until after multiple officers attempted to tase him. Furthermore, so what if he had a knife? As far as we're aware, he's got a second amendment right to keep and bear arms. Being armed isn't an excuse to be killed by cops because you are generally explicitly allowed to be armed.
All in all:
- We don't know he's armed
- We don't know his intentions
- He didn't immediately attack anyone
- While he did threaten them he made no indication that he intended to follow through until he was attacked
- He continued to try to leave the situation until he was attacked
- The police attacked him first
- He didn't have a gun
- 4 people were shot by the police;
he was killed(this seems to have been erroneously reported earlier. He is now reportedly in critical condition), an officer and 2 bystanders were wounded - No one was stabbed
While that is textbook escalation, it really doesn't seem like they shot him cause he had a knife. They shot him (and 3 others) cause he didn't care about their authority and they couldn't let the guy that was already on the train go. And all that came about because he tried to skip a fare that costs around the same amount as the bullets fired.
cops said was armed with a knife
You know they lie to cover their own asses, right?
Yes, but this time their body cams seem to have worked. Amazing how that happens when it shows things that can justify the cop's story?
And yet they didn't release the footage. Either there's no knife or the behavior of the police was outrageously incompetent. If they were justified they'd be tripping over themselves to show it.
It only happened yesterday, if the footage backs up the cop's story it will get released eventually.
Big IF
if the footage backs up the cop's story it will get released eventually.
So it won't?
Mayor Eric Adams, who also attended the briefing, described the knife-wielding man as a "career criminal" with over 20 arrests.
Is that true? Is it relevant? Idk. But it's in the article.
It's as relevant as Kyle Rittenhouse murdering a registered sex offender.
In both cases, there is no possible way the person firing the gun could have known that.
Hey now, when Kyle Rittenhouse crossed state lines to take pot-shots into a crowd of protesters, he paid every toll and observed every traffic ordinance. How can you possibly compare Rittenhouse to this turnstile jumping barbarian?
I was comparing Rittenhouse to the cops. Do keep up.