the future capitalists will take from us if we let them continue destroying our planet
the future capitalists will take from us if we let them continue destroying our planet
84 comments
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Actually, now that I think about it, has there even been a piece of media showing a utopia as capitalist? All the genuine utopias I can think of are usually at least socialist leaning. I say genuine cause there's also a huge number of works about "utopias" where the whole plot is about how the society isn't actually a utopia.
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that's because a capitalist Utopia is in no way realistic (and acutally self-contradictory). The only future Capitalism offers is a dystopian one (if we even get to have a future, which is not all that likely under current circumstances)
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I think the closest we might would be a mixed economy utopia, where capitalism co-exists with things like workers rights and whatnot. Its probably difficult to write a believeable capalist utopia because it requires that the people at the top are all saints.
Although, with the advances in AI, maybe someone could write a story about some megacorp AI meeting everybody's needs. It might be an interesting writing experiment.
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I think the word you're looking for in reference to a utopia not being a utopia is "dystopia".
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tmw you are trying to build up a leftist meme community over at !leftymemes@lemmy.dbzer0.com , so you use lemmy's wacky implementation of crossposts
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subtle lol
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Both scenarios could actually happen at the same time
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I just want to point out that starfleet actively oppresses certain groups of people (genetically modified races usually), ignores the needs of their border worlds while simultaneously demanding they adhere to federation laws, and their entire legal system is broken. A judge forced Riker to prosecute Data despite the obvious personal connections.
Star Trek is not as much of a socialist utopia as people like to pretend it is. Its definitely a more liberal society, but equality is not a given.
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I haven't watched all of the new trek but I feel like they were slowly turning around the anti GMO stuff with Bashir. They highlighted the absurdity of leaving a child permanently disabled when he could become a doctor instead.
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New trek tries to do something similar, at least in Strange New Worlds anyways. Theres a whole courtroom episode regarding a certain member of the enterprise. Its a pretty new episode so I won't spoil anything for people. Anyways, theres more than 100 years between the two shows and basically nothing has changed.
Bashir got an exception provided his father spend time in prison. I wouldn't call that a particularly major win, but thats just me.
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I think it depicts a communist future quite well actually. Errors can and always will be made, Administration will always have to be done, it's just how do we go about those things once we achive a communist society? Proper Star Trek explores those questions and ofc the show in it of itself isn't flawless either
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Mad Max is just a documentary of the Australian outback
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Pretty sure Star Trek is actually full on communism given that they're a classless and moneyless society.
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you are correct. though the path to that kind of communism leads through the socialist stage of development
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Right, there has to be a transitional state from society the way it is shaped by capitalism to a different kind of society that's based on communist economic relations. Incidentally, I thought this was an excellent explanation of the relationship between socialist and communist phases of development https://www.versobooks.com/blogs/3228-lenin-s-three-theoretical-arguments-about-the-dictatorship-of-the-proletariat
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And ww3 and a post-atomic horror.
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Ohh! So I rewatched Voyager!
Sevenofnine never wanted to be human.. Like she desperately missed the collective for a LOONG time. Janeway forced it on her.
Also! Janeway fucking killed off Tuvick. Dude was begging for his life.
Sorry haha, just wanted to bitch.
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The Borg are arguably the most evil force of that universe. What Janeway did is about the only way to convert them back.
Tuvick is a bit more morally ambiguous and a good pick. Either choice would have killed someone, in a sense.
I think a worse one is that time they grew a clone just for their organs. This was Voyager, right? Star Trek do be like that.
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IMHO this situation was not morally ambiguous, like at all. There was a transporter accident. Two crewmen died. That's that. The fact that a new sentient being came to life as a result is a completely separate matter. That being (Tuvix) as far as anyone should be concerned, was a newborn.
At that point, what you had was a tragic accident of no one's intention or volition.
The choice was never "save two crewmen" vs "save Tuvix," because at that point, the two crewman were already dead. And Tuvix was alive and in no danger. There was no moral impetus to do anything. A tragedy happened, it sucks. Move on with life.
So IMHO Janeway absolutely, intentionally, volitionally murdered Tuvix, who was a newborn in no danger. She absolutely resurrected two crewman who were already dead. She did this for her own personal reasons, and acted immorally. QED.
Thank you for coming to my irrationally-important-to-me TED talk.
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That was on Enterprise but yeah that one was hard.
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This makes me sad.
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remember: Pessimism of the Mind, Optimism of the Will! revolutionary Optimism is hard to upkeep but helps with not falling into despair (I know that all too well unfortunately :/)
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Talkies are cringe, both is bad
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what do you even mean? progressive Trekkies are cool and Tankie is just a derogatory word to describe revisionists
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and Tankie is just a derogatory word to describe revisionists
That's not what the term tankie means.
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back to reddit with you
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Also nothing is black and white and this meme just furthers the polarized belief that other=wrong makes mine right
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What's the future under the nordic compromise?
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the so called nordic compromise, is just an implementation of "social" "democracy" and even that has been eroded over the last few decades. It still upkeeps the exploitative nature of capitalism and is largely build on imperialism, racism and oil/fossil fuel money... As such, it still caters to the interests of the rich minority instead of the well-being of humanity at large
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Well said. How can someone stop drowning if the rich won't take their foot off the people's heads?
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Yeah, capitalism and communism have both had pretty bad implementations historically.
Imo the issue is down the us humans. For these systems to work correctly we need to act in good faith, but we are inherently corruptable.
These systems are like beasts that need to be tamed to work properly, but alot of the time the people in charge like to just throw their hands up and go "that's just how it works!" and not really do anything to fix the issues just because they're comfortable in the now.
We saw it in how Stalen corrupted Marx's ideals and ran the Russian State into the ground, and we see it with how western governments have let themselves be corrupted by the influence of big corporate interests.
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Mad Max, but in pyjamas.
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Babylon 5.
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That's the future under post-scarcity, not socialism. They have replicators, which has made manual labor, capitalism, and socialism obsolete. We do not have any such technology and therefore cannot achieve such a thing at this time.
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We already live in a "post-scarcity" world... there is absolutely nothing humans could need that we couldn't grow or produce. All the scarcity you see around you is artificially created and maintained - and that means socialism is far, far from obsolete.
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there is absolutely nothing humans could need that we couldn’t grow or produce.
Yes, but much of it is made using human labor. Labor is what's scarce in real life and not scarce in Star Trek, and a technological Holy Grail is required to bridge that gap.
So no, present-day scarcity is not artificial. Not entirely artificial, at least.
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I think it's closer to communism than socialism or post-scarcity. There's no democratic control of the workplace to be seen; everybody just shares everything. But they don't have infinity starships for everyone.
I think the best episode which explores this idea is the DS9 baseball card episode. The card isn't post-scarcity; it's extremely valuable personal property.
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They don't have infinite starships because they don't have infinite energy and raw materials. What they do have is effectively infinite labor, since they can trivially make just about anything (with a few exceptions, like latinum) out of whatever resources are on hand.
I didn't see the episode you mentioned, so I can't comment on it.
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What’s up with this place being too pro socialism.
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Well, reddit was showing signs of going more authoritarian, so the people who aren't into that came here.
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@alsaaas @TheTechNerd either we as a society deconstruct capitalism or we as a species do not have a future
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There is no such thing as being "too pro-socialism."
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Reality has a left-wing bias, my friend
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The bottom is the society that will happen post-socialism. No matter what political system follows, it will always end up in the hands of those who seek to abuse it. Everybody wants to be wealthy and pain free, socialism requires that everyone feel the same degree of pain and suffering no matter what.
We are doomed to be on this rock to the end of our days, unless we can destroy it slowly enough to show us that we are ruining it, and give us the ability to feasibly evacuate it.
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What a load of bollocks.
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Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, even if they remain solely opinions and not facts.
Yours is one of those. We are not leaving this planet before we destroy it, kill each other, or starve to death.
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Socialism good, capitalism bad. Agree?
84 comments
Where's the funny?
the cynical side of me liked it. ofc that may not be your kind of humor
There isn't any. Just the typical 14 year olds railing on about the same ten commie phrases as if it was ever funny. Looking forward to more diverse meme communities coming to Lemmy so I can block the communist stupid.
Hehe basing actual society on media representation of the extremes lol
political memes are always forced and unfunny