3w ago

US tells NATO if Zelenskyy does not sign peace deal Ukraine will face worse in future

www.theguardian.com

US tells Nato if Zelenskyy does not sign peace deal Ukraine will face worse in future

US army secretary briefs ambassadors at ‘nightmare meeting’ in Kyiv on Friday after talks with Ukrainian leader

US officials have told Nato allies they expect to push president Volodymyr Zelenskyy into agreeing to a peace deal in the coming days, under the threat that if Kyiv does not sign, it will face a much worse deal in future.

The US army secretary, Dan Driscoll, briefed ambassadors from Nato nations at a meeting in Kyiv late on Friday, after talks with Zelenskyy and taking a phone call from the White House. “No deal is perfect, but it must be done sooner rather than later,” he told them, according to one person who was present.

The mood in the room was sombre, with several European ambassadors questioning the content of the deal and the way in which the US had conducted the negotiations with Russia without keeping allies informed.

109 comments

Face worse? They are going to get invaded a second time? Because yes, that is the fear and why they won't sign shit.
"HEY, BULLY, AND NERD, STOP FIGHTING EACH OTHER! I DON'T CARE WHO STARTED IT, JUST GIVE HIM YOUR LUNCH MONEY OR IT WILL BE WORSE TOMORROW!"
- Second? Crimea was the first, this is second.
  Russia is hoping third time is the charm
  
  This has been going on since russian empire was not afraid to call itself that. The label changed multiple times, the imperialism did not.
  
  Aaaah shit man I forgot how many times they've already done that, my bad. Like, remember that time when they signed a sovereignty agreement with Russia in exchange for their nukes post 1991? I remember that, in that they said that, the agreement was that, give up the nukes to Russia, and you won't be invaded.
  Then they got invaded.
  Twice?
  Am I still off by the count? Because I seem to recall something from the 2nd World War where they starved the country to death but I'm drunk so forgive me if my memory is foggy I'm sure someone will set me straight
- This is a hail Mary for Putin. He knows his goose is cooked if Russia doesn't win, and the only way he can win is if Trump forces Ukrain to surrender.
  The bad news for Putin is that everybody already knows this, and also knows that Trump can't really do much except act like the assclown that he is. The Europeans aren't going to reward Putin. And they know that Trump's days are numbered, and each of those days is going to show more cognitive decline and increasingly grotesque displays of megalomania, even if one of his many other crimes and scandals doesn't render him incapable of further outrages.
  And whether it's Trump or Putin who goes first, the other will soon follow. They are propping each other up, and the whole arrangement is unstable.
  
  Unfortunately the EU is sucking up to Trump nonstop. Now weakening the GDPR for example, and promising billions of investment while receiving nothing in return but a weak promise that there will be no further tariffs.
- What, are they going to bomb civilians and infrastructure so that we have power cuts every day? Oh wait...
- why they won't sign shit
  69% of Ukrainians are in favour of a negotiated end to the war as soon as possible.
- And there is no worse than Russia getting territory from an European perspective. It just gives Russia free reign to start again but with EU members this time. So doing this means war, probably nuclear within a few years (France put into it's rules of engagement that countries on which France depends economically getting attacked conventionally are de-facto under the french nuclear umbrella as it would be protecting "the interests of the Nation").
  So accepting this diktat means nuclear war. What is the worse outcome than nuclear war they are talking about?
I wish US officials the worse fate possible.
So MAGA actually stands for Make America Subservient To Russian And Israeli Interests? Who woulda tohunkit
- Anyone with 2 brain cells thunk it
As horrible as it would be, if Ukraine never backs down and ends up going down in flames it will at least serve as a historical reminder of what happens when you treat the USA as a friend. This is a mark that would not be erased easily; Nazi Germany is still thought of and talked about almost 100 years since it happened, and Backstabbing USA would be no different.
People will remember why Ukraine fell, and they will know who not to trust. The USA has spent a long, long time getting the world hooked on their technology and aid, and in one short year Trump has torn a lot of it down to the point that people globally are actively looking for alternatives.
- I mean, that was his goal. Either destroy trust to weaken our position globally for the benefit of someone else, or blind adherence to the belief that other countries are the only beneficiary of the relationship we have with them, and they need to "stop freeloading". That in exchange for military defense, technology, aid, and everything else we get unparalleled military freedom, everyone meeting us on our terms and first mover advantage, control of global financial markets and preferential market access basically everywhere. Their boneheaded view that government is a business and everyone who came before just didn't understand somehow is infuriating.
  
  I mean, that was his goal. Either destroy trust to weaken our position globally for the benefit of someone else,
  It's not for the benefit of someone else though. Trump wants to intentionally destroy the US government by destroying its credibility both within and abroad. He does this by cutting foreign aid and pissing off all the US' former allies, and by terrorizing the US population.
  His goal is to destroy the US as an institution because his key voters, which are southeners, think that they were forced to partake in the United States against their will back in the civil war from 1800, and that they should have a right to secede, and if it's not given to them freely, they have to destroy the entire US just to get away from it.
  
  Trump is simply Putin's stooge. But it appears that Vance might actually believe, or finds it convenient to pretend to believe, the bullshit about one-sided alliances.
  Funny that the one actual one-sided alliance is with Israel, and that's never questioned by the MAGAdiots in charge.
- This scenario sucks about as much as something can in a global game. Per chance it could instill , inversely & conversely for all to aspire to betterness with no bitterness. We really can’t (In the USA) understand the gravitas’s of said scenarios until theses ICE jackboots began hitting the ground full force in these brutally bullshit manners. The planet is kinda upside down for a moment. Just remember ya’ll this is a thrill ride and it’s way more real for some than others. By that I mean I am eternally grateful and mindful of the safety of that which I live daily life. For some on this planet will never know or even comprehend such profound luxury. Just a reminder to share kindness & love for no particular reason. And most importantly, we need to cover each other’s asses & backs! Just because.
Why is anyone listening to the US anymore? They are turning themselves into North Korea and losing any credibility they might have had. Who gives a shit what they say anymore?
- Because Europe has had half a decade to fill the void and they can't get it done and continue to act like cost efficiency is the name of the game.
  Europeans seem to want to rag on about the US being irrelevant while being completely unwilling to put their money where their mouths are.
  I am very supportive of Europe, but they need to wake up to that reality and stop bickering about pennies.
  They should have been at wartime production years ago, and yet they still don't even have a 5th let alone 6th gen fighter jet.
  The fact that the USA, who is currently chopping its own legs off, is managing to provide just about equally to the Ukrainian war effort to you, who are literally neighbours, should be embarrassing and sobering, but instead people just keep complaining and expecting the US to both shut up, and fix it.
  
  Your claim that US and EU aids are about equal is false.
- I agree, but US hardware are still top of the line which are essential for any countries to effectively combat Russian, and potential Chinese, aggression. Even part of the deal of EU and Trump is the former investing in the US military. Many countries also do not have the same military industrial complex that the US have, so many are too reliant for de facto protection. Trump is merely formalising and making money from that unwritten rule.
  
  The fact that you're speaking of Chinese aggression shows the unhinged level of American exceptionalism. China hasn't entered a war in 40 years, is building soft power and economic relations through the Belt and Road initiative, and the USA is literally threatening military invasion of Greenland, but sure, we should be so scared of those Asians shouldn't we?
  
  I mean, top of the line is an overstatement. It's the quantities and the supply chain behind it that make it worth it, from a technological point of view they are good at best.
- I don't know what this is supposed to mean.
And who exactly are these leaders working on behalf of? Because it sounds like this absolutely dogshit deal favors the Russians and gives them everything they want. They’re holding Ukraine at gunpoint and threatening them to accept a very unfavorable deal. With the Russians beside them.
- Possibly on behalf of Ukrainians. 68% of them want a negotiated end to the war as soon as possible. Are you sure you're speaking on behalf of the Ukrainians?
  
  …yeah. Did you read the article? Of course no one wants to be at war, especially when that war is going on at home. But ceding the territory the Russians invaded, amnesty for war crimes committed, and Russian as the official language? The US and Russia were the only ones negotiating, without Ukraine, without other allies.
  This is Russia and the us strong arming—together—Ukraine into accepting a terrible deal. Trump has been negotiating for Russia and with Ukraine the whole time.
A deal with Russia isn't worth the paper it's written on.
This war is only even possible because they've already violated an agreement they had with Ukraine. It would be insane for Ukraine to agree to a different deal for safety when they already did that and got back stabbed.
Meanwhile Europe will push Ukraine not to sign the deal (not that much persuasion will be necessary) because Europe doesn't want to set the precedent that Russia can just eat away at Europe.
As for the threat from the US that Ukraine will get a worse deal if they don't sign, given how crap the current deal is, I can't see how it could reasonably get any worse, unless it's total surrender, but that won't fly because there would be literally no point even considering that. The Trump administration really are useless at negotiating, they think they can strong arm Ukraine, but they don't actually have any cards.
How exactly is this going to be worse? Putin keeps a bunch of territory, gets welcomed back into the global economy, Ukraine gets hard limits on NATO membership and they're on military in exchange for a weak non-guarantee of security. You could sum the whole thing up as 'let's all agree Russia won'.
It's bullshit. It legitimizes military conquest of territory. The only compromise should be that Russia stops their illegal invasion, Russia's internationally held funds are 100% given to Ukraine for reconstruction, and the border territories get to hold a vote to decide which country they want to be a part of.
As this is now, it's just legitimizing the occupation. As an American I am very disappointed that our President would push such a thing.
- Yup. And the only reason for Russia to insist Ukraine never join NATO would be so Russia could attack them again in the future without consequence.
  
  Yup. And the only reason for Russia to insist Ukraine never join NATO would be so Russia could attack them again in the future without consequence.
  Exactly.
- It’s bullshit. It legitimizes military conquest of territory
  Look, don't get me wrong here, I'm Ukrainian on my fathers side, but that line of argument doesn't quite hold water when you look at what the US has been up to for the past 100 years. In some sick sense, I get it, it's like, Putin is saying, fuck you, if the US can wage wars of conquest, so can we.
  Clearly not as successfully, but I understand how you could defend that rationale. Jesus christ don't think I'm defending the Russians here, I'm just saying, for real like. Slava Ukraini.
  
  or the argument holds water and also the US has consistently been in the wrong for the same reasons
  
  US is certainly no angel. Saying that as an American.
  At the same time, there's a difference between shit we did in the 70s (and so did many other nations including RU) and today. In this millennium the closest we came to conquest was Iraq but we dumped that pretty fast.
  'We're going to conquer this territory by force and add it to our own' hasn't been an internationally recognized valid move in decades. We should not validate it.
- ... and the border territories get to hold a vote to decide which country they want to be a part of.
  Have you seen Russian 'democracy' before ? Gee whiz 100% of people voted to join Russia shocked
  
  Have you seen Russian ‘democracy’ before ? Gee whiz 100% of people voted to join Russia shocked
  Obviously there would have to be some kind of neutral 3rd party overseeing the vote...
russia is losing bad, so putin pressures krasnov to force ukraine into an unfavorable deal or he will release some of the epstein files, or redirect his troll farms to attack krasnov.
Ukraine will face worse in the future if they take the deal. Nations which went down fighting rose again, but those which tamely surrendered were finished.
- Russia probably won't be finished but you can still punch a bully in the mouth.
  Nuke this, nuke that, if my country actually held true to the Budapest Memorandum none of this would have happened. We already bailed on Ukraine once.
If there is a peace deal to be brokered by outsiders, it should be through NATO without the USA. Europe still vaguely recalls what came of the Versailles Treaty, so EURO-NATO would at least try to make sure things turn out alright.
Any deal that is conceived by the USA is inherently bad, because the Childfucker In Chief wants to molest the world and to fill his pockets with misbegotten gains.
There’s that shady salesman tactic of “buy this bad product now for a low price”
- Art of the deal
  Trump always backs down, Zelensky should call and see what he's holding at this stage. Russia has always been the USAs biggest bogeyman, I can't actually see them pulling out completely
  
  ART OF THE STEAL.
- trumps the shady used car salesman/ car salesman, and putin is the shady car manufactarer/company, includes the wierd teeth grin that used car salesman and ambulance chaser lawyers do on thier ads.(kinda like how mr beast smiles)
And if they do sign the deal, it's probably installing a Russian puppet regime, squeezing every penny by USA and Russia to pay back the war and a new invasion in 10 years.
I literally have no horse in this race, but I still feel sick to my stomach thinking "please don't cave in to this asshole and completely waste that many lives and years for nothing"
This is a make or break moment when Europe has to tell America to fuck off or it'll be absolutely heartbreaking.
What the fuck is the US doing?
Well it's obvious but how in the fuck
Dear Krasnov - Quit Piggy.
- Whilst Fatboy McPaedo is sitting his obese arse in the wshitehouse everyone may as well see the usa as an extension of russia.
- I'd expect NATO would have to expel the U.S. (or the U.S. would have to fully, officially leave) before the whole of NATO could consider them an enemy.
Get it already. You should consider the current US administration as a group of imbeciles.
It would be nice if I could say I hope the Europeans will tell Trump to shove his idiotic "plan" where the sun don't shine. If only they weren't a bunch of fucking spineless twerps.
Since 85 years, you should know, that appeasement never worked well..
- This is more Molotov-Ribbentrop territory.
America is such a pathetically weak country led by compromised pedophiles.
Americans can kindly go fuck off under a rock in the ocean.
Cowardly cunts, then entire fucking lot of you. Enjoy your new control under Russia pussies.
How does Trump know?
OK boomer.
Trump works for pootles.
Witkoff is a real estate agent, not a diplomat, and it shows. The deal is largely irrelevant or bullshit.
- It's so poorly written. A document like that is an important legal document, but it reads like it was written by an undergrad
  Just embarrassing for the US to put out a document like that
  
  but it reads like it was ~~written by an undergrad~~ translated from Russian by ChatGPT
You can literally replace "US" with "Russia" in this title and it would still make perfect sense.
isnt it obvious this is buzzword straight from putins mouth, through KRASNOV.
blah blah blah, another "peace" deal, russia go fuck yourself.
I don't get geopolitics. Why is Trump acting like the UN in this scenario?
translation: "he's going to release the video of me blowing bubba... you gotta sign this"

109 comments