you can't make the system better by voting. our rights were taken by force, not given to us willingly.

"If voting could change anything, they'd make it illegal" -Emma Goldman
- Emma Goldman 💟

Reminder that "you can't make the system better by voting" applies even when you win the actual votes. Chile found out when democratically-elected socialist leader Salvador Allende was murdered in cold blood by a fascist CIA-backed coup and replaced by a fascist dictator, and Spain (my homeland) found out when we democratically elected a leftist coalition during the Spanish Second Republic, only to have a failed coup which turned into a civil war in which Fascists backed by Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy fought against the legitimate democratically elected government (supported only by the USSR while the USA, England and France looked the other way during Nazi bombings such as that of Gernika), ultimately with Fascists winning the war and creating a 40-year fascist dictatorship of which we still sadly live the consequences.

Chile also found out when that piece of shit bootlicker Borics won pretending to be a socialist only to immediately kowtow to the US' every whim once in office.

I feel bad for a lot of people who don't want violence.

I don't want it either, but they're backing us into a corner. There have been many, many attempts at settling this peacefully, and it just hasn't happened yet.

As Churchill said, you can't reason with a lion while your head is in its mouth.
- Quoting Churchill in this post lmao

You can do all those things and also vote. So vote. Sure, votes won't make the system better, but you can make it harder for the fascists to get away with shit while you organize. Vote.

Voting is fine as long as you are aware that it does nothing to materially prevent fascism. It can't hurt anything to write something on a piece of paper. But the problem isnt really people like you. Its liberals who believe that voting is the be all end all of their political responsibility.
Electoral democracy is ultimately a misdirection. Capitalists are the actual sources of political power in western democracies. They unfortunately have a vested interest in the state getting more fascist and actually have the power to effect that change. So long as everyone looks down at the ballot box and then goes home to do nothing of material difference for the next 4 years, fascists will only continue to gain ground until they can do away with the misdirection of electoralism entirely.
Voting cannot be the only thing you do. Or you are effectively doing nothing. Which you seem to understand, but liberals do not. They actually want all other forms of political action banned. Because liberals ultimately protect capitalists, who are the real sources of political power. Leftist political action is a threat to capitalists. Thusly, liberals condemn it and recommend voting instead.
- What I'm saying is that not voting is foolish, not that voting is the only thing that should be done. In fact I'm saying that other things should be done. We clearly agree, I just think it is harmful to spread anti voting rhetoric because while it can't fix things it is still a meaningful thing that can be done with immediate consequences for many.
- Voting is fine as long as you are aware that it does nothing to materially prevent fascism.
  There is no such thing as preventing fascism. It's a fight every generation has to win, no matter what government they live under. It's always about delay so we can fight it again tomorrow.
Voting is for them to let us have one of the two kinds of mercy they're willing to take. I'll vote if I'm feeling kind that day
So are we at the part where things need to be on-fire?
I do adore the flames, they speak to me.
- That was in like 2004. Not sure what red line you think you’re waiting for.
"We can't just vote "
- ??

said everyone sane, but not knowing how

I've read the declassified sabotage guides but people still have things to lose before they have nothing to lose.

Based on the voter turnout in the last US Federal election, I would say you COULD have made the system better (or at least not immeasurably worse) by voting.

Folks just chose not to.

It wouldn't have made the system better. It would have delayed people from making the system worse.
- The last chance to make it better was the 2020 primary. That definitely could have been a fulcrum if Democratic voters weren't such idiots.
- Which means more time to make it better. I would rather have things fall apart in pieces instead of collapsing as a whole

You can all talk politics, but Arson Rabbit is my new hero.

Are there any actual leftist spaces on this site? This place is as filled with libs as r/leftist back on Reddit which was always cringe. Need more active anarchist pages or those site's version of latestagecapitalism to get more use.

hexbear is arguably the most trans-inclusive place in Lemmy. Most people there are either Marxist-Leninist or Anarchist, and there is very little liberalism tolerance. People are also fun and make jokes about beanis :)
Hexbear, .ml and lemmygrad are pretty great. It's .world, lemm.ee and feddit which are filled with everyone too toxic or obnoxious for even the reddit libs.
may I introduce you to https://anarchist.nexus/
- Thanks. I keep forgetting Piefeed is a different thing from Lemmy/Blorp so got confused why it wasn't popping up when I tried searching for it.
Lemmy.dbzer0.com - Lemmy Quokk.au - PF Anarchist.nexus - PF
All 3 are anarchist/left.
Than there’s the triad if you’re into killing innocent people with tanks.
Do you want 🇷🇺 to win the 🇺🇦 war?
- You seem to care so much about Ukrainians. Surely then you support the Soviet Union, which in 1991 71.5% of Ukrainians voted to uphold and whose antidemocratic dissolution led to the worst humanitarian crisis in the history of post-WW2 Europe:
  Surely you support the system that kept Ukraine well-fed, industrialized and at peace with the neighboring sister region, which maintained Ukrainian presidents of the entire Union such as Khrushchev and Brezhnev, and whose dissolution led to Ukraine becoming the poorest country in Europe?
- No? The fuck kind of question is that? It's like asking if I want Israel to continue existing after everything they've done.
- I don't give a shit, if you care so much about Ukraine pick up a gun and go fight
Lmao this place is overrun with "Leftists" -- what are you even talking about?
- yes, it is overrun with liberals cosplaying as leftists, but on the plus side the admins don't really mind too much if you shit on the libs, so long as you aren't being a bigot while you do it. so even if there is an infestation of democrats, they provide the leftists here with amusement.
- It's overrun with blue MAGA libs that attack anyone who refuses to fall in line with the Dem party. Just look at many of the comments on posts in leftymemes that are anti-drmocrat or anti-voting. Tons of these morons crawling out of the woodwork to defend them and spout their "lesser evil" BS.

You definitely can achieve some things with voting.

I knew there was a reason I never got permanently identifiable tattoos like everyone else in my age group and kept my hair and beard long so I can change my appearance with a pair of scissors and a razor in just a few minutes.

Ukraine 2013-2014 - literally saved the country from being dismantled and absorbed by russia.

Do y'all not have any context dependent cues to start ranting about the RuZZian orcs or whatever the fuck? It must be unbearable to know you irl jfc
Anything's possible when you make shit up
- more like anything is possible when folks get together and push back in a concerted effort. that wall of fire was as real as it gets.

Yes this is a message I’m fully behind

Honestly, the fact that ICR just does what it wants on American streets is pretty weird to me. How have people just not chased them off yet? So weird.

They are confronted all the time and there are a bunch of viral videos of people literally chasing them out of neighborhoods

Brb, re-painting the lines on the stroad near my house to add a bike lane.

Well, after I rent a pavement grinder to fix the damn sidewalks.

Install a speed bump for additional safety https://www.clevescene.com/news/urbanist-guerillas-fed-up-neighbors-install-speed-bump-on-street-where-five-year-old-was-struck-and-killed-38879832

Now is the time for performative action. Take a video of you standing a hundred metres away from ICE agents dragging naked children off to the camps, but like do a funny dance or something so they know you're mocking them. The only way to defeat fascism is by politely teasing them.

The people who actually defeated fascism last time would be rolling in their graves if they could hear that assessment
- I know right, probably all like "ughh why didn't we think of that, what a waste of all that blood"

Better check what those "minor updates" did to the voting machines.

Whether or not you believe the election was stolen, the simple fact that something like that is able to happen is unnfuckenbelievable. I've worked on projects that don't have any impact irl where this would be impossible. It truly boggles the mind how exposed US elections are to corruption, without even mentioning the word gerrymander.
They need to get themselves an AEC.
Bro it’s all a ruse whether it’s a card or machine or in person vote u think powers that be will allow the voters to disrupt them with a suprised candidate lol cmon bro

We still have midterms, if people go e then reason we will not have it. Be careful because I put they will put agitators inside to push their narrative.

AI or good old fashioned illiteracy? You be the judge!

The force of gravity has been already shown to take rights for us, when applied to the necks of the oligarchy.

Their hrududus are scary. We must be scarier!

I GET THIS

Serious question: has violence ever made the country better? Could you please list a few historical examples?

Unironically yes. The American civil war was fought over whether slavery should be permitted. Slavery is objectively bad, thus fighting to get rid of it made the country better.
Not to mention the revolutionary war, civil rights movement, etc. It doesn't take much US history knowledge to know this.
you're white as fuck and straight as an arrow, aren't you? nobody who wasn't would ever seriously ask that question.
- Hey, I am white as duck, but my shape is more of a boomerang...
Are you being obtuse or are you really just that fucking stupid?
- You voted for a genocider. I love people like you IRL. They can afford to be very nice by voting to externalize their country's violence. You were ready to throw foreigners under the bus, you didn't care your party of choice were supporting bombing of civilians, well, as an European, I'll campaign not to allow refugees from the US. Enjoy your own medicine, scum
- Yeah, now that i think about it, i can name a few examples too, including the violent removal of colonial administrations around the world. I don't know why i didn't think of that when i wrote my above comment.
The battle of Blair mountain, John Brown, hell, the Black Panthers. Peace is good, but without the threat of violence it falls easily.
I am impressed by the pacifist responses on Lemmy. I assume country means the USA.
Labor strikes have led to violence. Among the consolations were the eight hour work day for some and an end to some child labor.
The Kansas-Nebraska Act sparked Bleeding Kansas which contributed to the Civil War. The result of the violence was a change in labor relations for slaves. Owners had to get more creative at creating an underclass.
stonewall, american civil war, anytime someone throws a brick at a cop car
Historically illiterate and cowardly