Many such cases.

Guys, I'm a Linux user, too, but can we stop having these fake arguments, please?

Many such cases

I never met anyone in real life who said the stuff shown in this meme. The handful of comments here are few and far between.

Spent two weeks debloating

The folks who care enough to debloat are either already on Linux or would spend maybe 1-2h to make a few fixes, before they get something they are okay with.

Just install Linux

For those who stick with Windows, it's often more than "just switching". They may need certain software, they may not be tech-savvy, they may be insecure about whether they could handle the occasional hiccup on a system that is completely new to them. All valid reasons for hesitation, and "just switch" is about as helpful as "just cheer up".

Because learning Linux would take time.

I've used Linux for 15 years now, and I'm still constantly learning new things. Linux is so much more usable now than it ever was, and I also think more people should switch. But suggesting that you "learn Linux" in two weeks' time is just silly and dishonest IMO.

I wish we as a community could stop with this sense of superiority and actually acknowledge people's humane struggles to help them make the move.

I wish we as a community could stop with this sense of superiority
Not possible in a Linux community. They have only three jokes:
Fuck windows
I'm so smart for using the superior software stack (and everybody is an idiot for not switching)
and my personal favorite: constantly trying to trick people into using FOSS software by telling everybody they're as good even in cases where they're clearly not (bro please use GIMP it's actually really good bro as soon as you understand its archaic 1998 user interface it's just as good as photoshop bro please)
- and my personal favorite: constantly trying to trick people into using FOSS software by telling everybody they’re as good even in cases where they’re clearly not (bro please use GIMP it’s actually really good bro as soon as you understand its archaic 1998 user interface it’s just as good as photoshop bro please)
  This. So this.
  But coming from a position of nativity, it's even almost understandable. For someone with a software development background, Linux is easily on-par with Windows and for many stacks even a lot better. There are a few cool pieces of software that don't exist under Linux (e.g. Sourcetree) but there are decent replacements that are maybe a little bit less convenient.
  So if you are a software developer and a very light user of stuff like Office, graphics/audio/video editing and similar stuff, you might actually believe that the FOSS alternatives in these areas are also decently good enough.
  I mean, for me GIMP and LibreOffice are totally good enough, because I do next to nothing with these tools, and for the one children's birthday party per year that I make, GIMP and LibreOffice are totally enough.
  The actual hubris here is to think that my noob-level experience with these tools allows me to judge whether these tools are good enough for professional use.
I spent 1-2 hours debloating Windows and it turns out Windows update doesn't work unless you turn back on the Windows firewall service.
I forgot how I disabled it in the first place, so I gave up and installed Linux
I hear you. I have 3 machines: my main rig, a light laptop and a server. The main rig is on Windows 10 LTSC and the server is on Linux (goes without saying).
When I bought the laptop I decided to use it only with Linux as a way to squeeze it's resources but also as a way to figure it how realistic it would be to use Linux exclusively. After starting on Mint and hopping to Arch I ended up on Debian and I'm quite satisfied with it. But I also realized it would never work on my main rig. Lots of stuff and software would just not work the same way. Would it be usable, yes. But it would be mostly workarounds instead of the perfect setup I have built.
Linux will definitely get there. It's improving fast. But telling people that don't know better to just switch only to find out half of what they did will now have to be done with workarounds and hassles is dishonest and does not help Linux at all. When Linux is perfect those people will already be burned and resist it needlessly.

It'd be nice if public schools used Linux for coursework instead of Windows. But it seems they settled with chromebooks, so now kids are even worse off.

Ironic that they are on Linux, as ChromeOS is Gentoo, but it's the worst possible distro to use.
- chrome os is Gentoo ?!?

There’s known knowns, known unknowns, and unknown unknowns. The first requires a lot less brainpower than the last.

I remember people laughing about that Rumsfeld speech but I just feel like those people didn't really get what he meant
- It makes perfect sense.
what aboot unknown knowns, those are my favorite

I am one of those people.

I'm sorry but I can't dedicate the time. Last time I tried to install it for someone else I went down a 5h rabbit hole of finding a driver for a scanner, and I was at the point where I had custom pkg repositories and needed to fix pkg dependency conflicts myself and I don't have the OS knowledge to do all this, and I didn't have time because I had to travel back again.

When I tried installing it for myself, I was missing critical software for a variety of things. For example, there's no good DAW on Linux, and even if there was, lots of VST plugins are only Linux compatible. Things like Adobe Premiere Pro and Adobe After Effects have no solid alternative to this day for Linux and hence I'm struggling to replace them. Blender is on Linux (obv) but for example render engines usually only come with software for windows.

And then there's a bunch of things where I'm not sure how compatible they are even if they were to run on Linux. Office uses proprietary file format constraints to lock down their ecosystem. Sucks, but everyone uses it, so I'm stuck. Unreal Engine, lots games, my audio interface, drivers for obscure small devices I need? I just don't know and I have to dedicate time to researching all of it.

I hope you can see why someone like me has a very hard time just switching over. Yes I can just pull the plug and do it, but I will get no work done for a solid 2 weeks and even after that I will be heavily constrained.

And this all on top of the fact that I regularly set up Linux VMs for specific things which break way too often on regular use. Which also does not spark joy.

I hope you can understand why I'm fine debloating windows with Chris Titus for half an hour and then just enjoying 4 years on it without worrying about all of that is easier.

And believe me, I bought a notebook and will try to go CachyOS x KDE Plasma on that, but it will be an experiment and I have lots of doubt that this can replace my setup.

Funny how people write a long essay why they stay on Windows, claiming what a hassle it is to set up Linux. Sure, you might know how do deal with Windows, but don't expect that other systems work the same way. Windows is the odd one.
If you depend on Windows-only software, there is nothing wrong with sticking to it. Use the system that fits your needs the most.
- I don't write essays often, but when I do it is because things are bothering me. Specifically, these memes are plenty and basically tell me someone like me doesn't exist. When this collides with people who say things like "I honestly can't imagine how you can use windows with all the crap" I get annoyed, and at this point I just wanted to make sure the people who write this know that there's lots of people like me who have good reasons.
  Turns out the world is multi-facetted.
no good daw
Ardour!
- What about my vst plugins though? That's what's holding me back. Native Instruments, addictive drums 2 and not wanting to touch gimp/Inkscape.
- And Reaper and Bitwig!
The potential pain with setups is a reason I like to point people at vendors like Slimbook, Tuxedo Computers or System76. Avoids a lot of possible problems for those who can afford it.
there's no good DAW on Linux
Now that's not true though. Bitwig Studio and Reaper f.e. support all the common plugins APIs and are excellent professional DAWs. And then of course you also got Ardour if you prefer FOSS.
Things like Adobe Premiere Pro and Adobe After Effects have no solid alternative to this day for Linux
I'm not perfectly familiar with Adobe products, but I'm very positive that DaVinci Resolve, Lightworks (literally used by Hollywood), Blender and Natron offer all the functionality those two do. And most likely with less crashes, as far as I heard about Premiere Pro. 🙃
Office uses proprietary file format constraints to lock down their ecosystem.
Didn't hear about issues with Office Suites in more than a decade. Microsoft famously manipulated their docs to hamper third-party apps in implementing docx support, that's quite a time ago though.
Unreal Engine, lots games, my audio interface, drivers for obscure small devices I need? I just don't know and I have to dedicate time to researching all of it.
Yeah, hardware is always a thing especially during a switch. Once you made it of course you can pick new gear that's known to be supported on Linux by their company. At least with Unreal Engine it's known to work, and Games by now basically always do except for those with the most vile Anti-Cheat.
I bought a notebook and will try to go CachyOS x KDE Plasma on that
May I suggest to use a more general-use, Ubuntu-based distro? Those often offer way better hardware support for more devices out of the box. That's one reason they're called bloated, but damn is it comfy sometimes.
- Didn’t hear about issues with Office Suites in more than a decade. Microsoft famously manipulated their docs to hamper third-party apps in implementing docx support, that’s quite a time ago though.
  This is still a thing. Open up MS Office docs in LibreOffice, and more often than not formatting will be messed up.
  Ok for personal use, unacceptable for professional use.
Seems like you already went through the journey :)
I would say though before switching to Linux, switch all your critical apps to the one available on Linux first. Get used to it and when your are finally comfortable, switch your OS. No need to switch all of them in one go. If for whatever reason you are never get comfortable with the trade-off, just stay on Windows. It is fine.
- switch all your critical apps to the one available on Linux first.
  Gimp and stuff is a nice toy for people like me who don't need anything, but it's a long shot away from being competitive with commercial software for professional use.

Learning Linux is nothing. Most people will never need anything outside of the GUI. There are distros that are very close to Windows in the GUI.

Oh well. Same people think switching to a Mac will take effort.

Thing is the people that never needed Windows, also didn't really need a PC...
Gamers seem to be an exception, and while WINE/Proton are good, they're not infallible. I can't even get WINE running unless it's running as root, which I don't really want to do, and it took a lot of faff to get it to even do that. Wasn't even anything complex, just a basic Win32 app I'd done as a test.
- while WINE/Proton are good, they’re not infallible.
  Just finished the latest trendy AAA game (Clair Obscur) thanks to Proton and Steam... 45hrs of (amazing) gaming and I didn't tinker with a single option.
- I've installed Fedora workstation the other week and it came with some apps like NPP that ran in wine by default for those that are transitioning away from Windows.

Actually, stop telling people to "learn" linux. Linux is either supposed to be easily navigable without the Command Line, or it's not the right thing for most people.

Either dumb it down, or don't expect people to learn it.

Depends what you want to do. I have installed Linux for some people and they were perfectly happy with it and never touched the command line. While for me barely a day goes by using Linux that I don't touch the command line for something.
This.
When switching to Android/iOS/ChromeOS/... people also aren't expected to "learn" that OS.
- Of course! I'll just magically re-learn keyboard usage on Mac and how its file system is structured, all automatically on purchase, right?
Actually, stop telling people to "deal with" Windows (okay, this one is pretty weak). Windows is either supposed to be easily navigable without going through a dozen of buttons-tabs-subwindows, ot it's not the right thing for most people
Either dumb it down, or don't expect people to use it

Sunk
Cost
Fallacy

2 weeks? More like 10 mins..

10 minutes is enough only for "Oh, that's too difficult, let's pretend that I'm content with Windows as it is"
I mean, 10 minutes is pretty optimistic even for a relatively savy user. It took me somewhere around an hour to find and fix everything. On the other hand, it took me and a bunch of people on the Linux support subreddit around 20 hours of troubleshooting to get Linux into a mostly functional state on my PC, at which point I and everyone else had given up, so...
Its been nearly two years since then though, and given what a nightmare Windows 11 is, I guess I'll have to give it another shot.

I just did a fresh install of windows 11 last week, after my attempt to switch to Plasma on ~~Debian~~ Fedora did not go very well. While it's absolutely true that some de-bloating must be done right after install, it took me like 15 minutes. I spent at least that long just finding the three different goddamn places I had to go to change the wallpaper in Plasma.

*Edit: wrong flavor of linux

The problem is you used Debian which is missing bug fixes for KDE, and is on a frankly ancient 5.27 - I have had nothing but an awesome experience on KDE 6, with both VRR, and HDR, working under Wayland.
Recommend trying a rolling release
- Unironically, I find Arch easier to use than Debian
- Whoops, I was actually using Fedora. I had to go check the kde website, as that is where I got it from and thought it would be weird if they recommended something so out of date.
You spent more than 15 minutes changing wallpaper in Plasma? I smell bs because it's really simple.
Right-click on desktop:
Pick an image from the list, or add your own images (“Add...”):
After you click “Add...”:
The last windows I used was 10, and I remember the process being very similar.

I walked this path at first, too. For me, it was more like my stubborn battle with Microsoft than not wanting to learn Linux (I had already learned Debian some time ago).

I've flip flopped back and forth, but after the recent bs with screenshot and OS-side ads (for a PAID software, mind you) I haven't even given Windows a second glance anymore.

If you've got the knowledge to truly debloat Windows, you have the knowledge to set up Linux.

Look, if it takes you 2 days to debloat windows, linux is gonna take a real fucking while to learn right.

2 days? He said 2 weeks haha
- oh fuck that's even worse.
Well he's cooked and proob chopped as well
The average Winblows user doesn't even know how to lock the screen without using their mouse or touchpad. Don't give me that "It's hard for people" bullshit. Most people can barely handle recognizing icons, which are the same regardless of OS.

windows debloating brought me more issues than using Linux, if windows is truly that much of an ass then you might as well have it as an option in a dual boos setup where you use it only when necessary (preferably non-debloated so it doesn't fuck itself when you need it)

I used to have a Linux/Win 11 dual boot.
After about 6 months I stopped using Windows altogether. After about a year I just wiped the drive and went 100% Linux because Windows becomes a liability when it does BIOS updates you don't want or need to ensure that it's the only OS on the machine.
- I am in the stage where i only gave windows 70gb of my partition and uses ones in a few months
- I yesterday tried installing win11, it couldn't detect my ethernet drives, and tried to sign me in, and because I had no internet, I had to create an account through cli anyway
  Funny

Microsoft's incompetence is the best thing to happen to Linux in recent years.

Most of my machines are Linux, and I can say the desktop experience still doesn’t match up with Windows. And there’s still so many third party tools that are Windows exclusive.

I would love to be able to shut down every Windows machine I have for good, and I’ve tried, but there are simply many things that still require Windows. Stop gaslighting people, and acting like they’re staying by choice.

If all you need is web based stuff, why even go to Linux? That’s overkill. Just use a tablet.

I mostly just game and browse the Internet and my daily driver is Linux. I have not come across anything that I needed Windows for so far, in a year and a half of not using Linux. There may be some games I was vaguely interested in that don't run easily on Linux, but day to day tasks, 3d printing/slicing software, basic image editing software, browsers, coding IDEs, all work native on Linux.
Sure, if there is a specific software that you really want to use, maybe that specific software isn't available on Linux. But one individual running into multiple things that only run on Windows sounds like it is a fairly specific use case. At best, someone might need to use an alternative program. At worst, maybe that person needs to keep a windows environment around. But that doesn't seem like the case for the majority of people.
- The problem with this pro-Linux argument, that only specific use-cases need Windows, is that also now applies to Linux. Probably 90% of people can do everything they need to with a tablet or phone. Even your listed day to day tasks are fairly specialized.
  I personally prefer to run my daily driver as a vm, so I can remote into from all of my frontends. I tried to tough it out with Linux for over a year like that, using multiple different remote solutions. Every single one felt like using a machine from the 90’s. Just not anywhere close to acceptable by today’s standards.
  Thanks to the steam deck standardizing support, Linux is probably fine for most pc gamers. Doesn’t work for me, but I use some very specific third party tools and hardware peripherals for simulators.
For the vast majority of usecases it is ready, niche applications sure, but most people could use linux these days.
- Most people could use tablets/phones and have a superior user experience. PC’s in general, whether running Linux or Windows, are becoming a niche product again.

Debloating windows is not a one-time adventure, it's what you're subscribing to do every now and then.

source: am recovering windoholic.

OneNote re-installing and re-adding itself to my startup after I absolutely turned it into swiss cheese was my final nail in the coffin.
Windows now lives in an image file that I can boot into using Linux as a thin client to start up a Windows VM for the occasional time I need to do some heavy Excel work. Absolute trashware.

I just took 2 months customizing Linux. Its that simple

I installed LTSC on a device recently. Very little effort for bloat free Windows.

Yep. Been using it for years, there's no way I could go back to any other version. Unfortunately still comes with fucked up default settings and you do need to tinker with it for privacy, but it's still miles ahead of any home edition for that.

I'd like to try Linux with minimal commitment and no setup. Give it real test drive with some of my most important tools.

If and when I decide to make the switch, I want to have access to my normal windows machine. I'd keep it around if I need it. But prefer if it went away slowly. I want to work with and communicate with windows users with neither of us having to jump through weird hoops.

I want my printer to work.

Problems will come up, but I don't want it to dominate my time.

I'm sure most of you will say not to worry, but until I've logged some real hours, I will.

I recommend downloading a Live Linux distribution and booting it from a USB stick.
This let's you try out linux without making any changes to your Windows setup. It also lets you make sure linux detects all your computer's hardware. If the live session works fine, the it will detect all that same hardware when you install it for real.
I installed Linux on a secondary hard drive in case I needed to get back on Windows for anything. So far it's been a few months and I haven't needed to, so I'm considering having Windows in a virtual machine or just getting rid of Windows instead.

I am considering moving off windows but am extremely not tech-savvy. Is there a good place for me to start?

extremely not tech-savvy
You managed to make an account and post on Lemmy so you're probably underestimated your technical knowledge. That being said IMHO it's best to first list what software you use then find alternatives that work on Linux. Once that's done then yes sure try whatever distribution you want.
Sure, here are instructions for getting Linux Mint running: https://www.linuxmint.com/download.php
These instructions are for creating a USB flash drive that functions as both a live environment or an installer. If you don't want to install it yet, this allows you to try it out while booting just from the flash drive, without modifying your hard drive at all.
Give CachyOS a shot
https://cachyos.org/
I do free infinite troubleshooting on matrix and specialize in this exact situation, feel free to message me. I recommend something based on immutable fedora because it's breakage resistant (immutable means the core system is read only and updates all at once on reboot) and fedora because it's very up to date but still stable, try aurora (it's fedora immutable with some small improvements)
do kde, always kde or gnome unless you know what you're doing, but kde is better

"But what if I maybe need this one function in this one programme in the next 35 years?"

I am a happy Debian user, but TBH, it doesn't take too much longer than 2 hours with Chris Titus Tech's winutil.

If you know the right tool for the task, very few things take time. IMHO what's more problematic is that with enshitification you're swimming upstream. Sure as long as the maintainer finds the right trick, you can postpone indefinitely bad "surprises" but ultimately, why do so when proper alternatives more aligned with your Worldview exist?
- I agree! But I guess it is a good option for those who still just have to stick, for e.g. IT reasons. That script does a little bit more than a lot of debloating.
  Could be any reasons, right? Gotta be mindful of those!...
  ...
  Legacy personal projects!
  Visual Studio!
  Some games!
  The sudden need for a Windows-only tool!
  And some people still don't want to switch away from... say, their Adobe tools. They don't want to!
  They don't want to is what!
  Same for say... those who want to play multiplayer games with... unfortunately, kernel-anti cheats...
  There's also folk who are stuck for organizational reasons like Microsoft 365 subscriptions.
  Here in India, Linux "market-share" jumped up to 14%, sure, but many, many people want to stick to Windows. Linux is an alien concept to most.
  Must promote the good thing!
  But rationality, man!

Lost four installations at my house, and I have Microsoft certifications professionally so I'm fairly invested.

Likely to be another few as I move the rest of my immediate family over to Linux slowly also.

Yup, with ya brother. I have Microsoft certifications dating back to NT4. I've never been bothered by anything Microsoft has done, with the possible exception of WinME. I have done thousands of installs for friends and family. When MS started actively preventing me from installing W11 to "older" hardware and requiring a login, I started looking into Linux. I had run Slackware in the 90s so figured Arch couldn't be that bad... It was actually easier than I remembered.
That was 2 years ago. This past weekend my Dad had somehow been force upgraded even though I had group policies in place to prevent upgrades past 22H2, and he wasn't happy with the result. Brought Linux Mint, booted from the USB and asked him to do everything he normally does on Windows. Almost all of his activities are browser based so I installed it and have yet to get any calls asking questions.

It takes less 2 hours really. Playbooks exist now and makes it way easier to use Windows XP 11. Cuz that's all anyone really wants.

I finally tried Linux. Tried three different Distros meant for beginners and it couldn't do the one thing I do most better than Windows. Gaming. Too many programs or overlay tools are Windows only. Compatibility programs rarely worked. Wine laughed in my face. Some Linux tools were also only compatible with other kernals.

I made the switch to have more control and felt like I left one series of cages for another.

For me gaming was the easiest thing to replace on Linux. Bazzite was painless and for me ran games with better performance. Since I use my gaming PC like a console HTPC I also have a way better experience with the more steam os like gaming mode it has over the standard big picture mode on windows, since I can now configure system settings within steam itself with my controller if I ever need to.
- I tried to use Proton for steam games, baked right in, shouldn't have many issues right? I'd still encounter games that just didn't work or had catastrophic bugs. Games that use kernals level anticheat are just not possible without emulation, I couldn't find low latency emulation, it was.. A trial in futility for me. The more I tried to make Linux work the more I had to ask myself why I couldn't just rip out the windows bloat and use it instead. I thought I was a Windows power user and it would translate to Linux, I was mistaken. I've taken for granted how universal Windows is and I have a respect for people willing to beat Linux into submission.

Plus, once you get done de-bloating Windows, the next Windows update will undo all your hard work and reset everything back to "allow all bloatware and spyware." It's a battle you're never going to win unless you ditch Windows completely.

I got an oldish mid range Asus gaming laptop the TUF Dash f15, what's a good distro for this? something that's as close as windows in perfomance as windows 10 is

something that's as close as windows in perfomance as windows 10 is
You’ll notice better load times on Linux 9 times out of 10 than any variant of Windows. With that being said, I would suggest Kubuntu.

Must promote the good thing!

But rationality, man!