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"us"? Unions have always had issues with women. UAW once has a strike over hiring them.
One of the first unions that really stuck in the US was the International Ladies' Garments Workers Union, which started in response to the Triangle Shirtwaist fire.
Yes, some traditionally male lead industries were shitty towards women, but your sweeping generalization is wrong.
UAW striked over woman working there yes or no?
This is the claim.
Unions have always had issues with women.
One strike from one union 80 years ago when cultural attitudes were entirely different has no bearing on that claim.
I listed an example not all examples.
List them all then. It won't matter. The plural of anecdote isn't data. The one example you gave is clearly the exception that proves the rule, otherwise you wouldn't have to go back 80 years to when pretty much every public institution mistreated and disrespected women.
You are not an honest actor, and I'm not telling you anything you don't already know. It sucks that assholes seem to worm their way into every corner of the Internet.
Gotcha data doesn't matter.
they said your generalization was wrong, not the UAW thing (which i don’t know or care about since i live on the other side of earth). go for a walk
Unions have been gaining class consciousness since their inception. It took a general strike of only white people in New Orleans for unions to realize that they will never succeed unless they accept and fight for black people too. The Wilmar 8 strike was a turning point for unions accepting women. Not to mention that this is probably from the IWW, which has always accepted women.
Are you saying what I said did not happen or are you downplaying it?
You gave one item of evidence, I would assume they're saying it's not enough to be able to say that about unions (that they have always had issues with women). They addressed what you said and added to it, so neither?
Are you saying what I said did not happen or are you downplaying it?
We're all saying that you're up-playing it. It's not that hard to understand.
Here, let me help you:
Reporting facts is up-playing. Very well. Disneyfy it
Your facts don't support your conclusion, kiddo.
Did it happen yes or no?
So what point are you trying to make here?
Neither. I'm saying that worker-led organizations are prone to the biases of the workers that make up the organization, but their reliance on class consciousness means that unions never keep their status quo bias for long. The president of the UAW today is a feminist and socialist. The CWA organizers I work with are anti racist and socialists.
And the teamsters I have dealt with the pass few years are maga types.
ok and? I'm talking about important individuals that play a vital part in building and directing worker power. You're discussing rando teamsters. Yes, there are shitty people in unions. Yes, at one point unions didn't have the knowledge they have today. That history is important. I won't deny or downplay it, there are some unions that have some very ugly history. However, unions today are not like they were in the past, because unions are solely led by the workers, and those MAGA fascists are a minority in every union in the country. But like I said before, this probably came from the IWW, which never had those problems.
But they’re a hell of a lot better about that sort of thing nowadays
And? The Internet has taught me that forgiveness isn't a thing.
You’re trying to go on an anti-union screed. I’m not letting you.
Don't need your permission and I have not.
Forgiveness is only possible once the offending behaviour is stopped. I suspect the Internet has never offered you forgiveness because you've never stopped your offending behaviour.
Noted. The very next time I see someone bring up something that happened decades ago I will be sure to see you comment on that.
Well, they’re right in the sense that Internet is very unforgiving about anything that anyone ever did, no matter if they stopped or not.
Doesn’t mean it’s a good practice and they should be justified in doing it as well, though.
That's kinda fair, but only if not looking at context. Unions represent the will/votes of the workers, and in the past women's rights were culturally looked down on. In the present day equality is a more widespread cultural view so unions now would reflect that, at least in areas that do. So essentially unions are only as good as the current majority ethics of the workers within them.
What is your alternative to unions?