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After Andy Yen's endorsement of the orange utan, I would seriously reconsider using any Proton product.
Yen tried to backpedal meekly several times since then, to get out of the pickle he got himself into with his definitely-not-impressed customers, but it's a bit late for that: either he's pro-Trump or he's naive. Either way, he makes Proton sketchy.
Idc if I likes Trump or not (even though Trump is garbage); but I do care that he says the Republicans - the party that has spent years attacking encryption and privacy, who has sued to obtain private medical records of women and trans people who see doctors, and who is funded by billionaire big tech moguls - is the better option for privacy.
Also just taking ANY position for a leader of the US - one of the biggest parties to the Five Eyes agreement - just leaves a bad taste.
Do you have any recommendations for someone who just uses them for email?
I'm a happy mailbox.org user
I use them too. Their web ui and app are totally ugly crap but if you use it with thunderbird or another mail app it’s good.
Just switched and couldn't be happier. Now I can use FairMail as a client and loving all the extra features.
I used a custom but generic sounding domain name which made the switch pretty seamless.
I'm only missing tag support on emails from them. In my ever growing archive, I came to realize, that tags are better suited for organizing than folders.
Ideally I would archive in yearly folders and also tag as much as I can.
I've been using Tuta for more than 8 years now and had one serious issue with their service during this time (longer outage, pretty early on). Other than that I have nothing but positive experience with them.
They're also based in Germany if that makes any difference.I was debating between proton and tuta, but I was able to get first.last@tuta so I’m happy that worked out now.
I have last@tuta.com and its a 3 letter last name, very cool.
We can only hope they won't screw up as well in the future.
I’m happy Posteo.net user.
German and secure email service.
But unfortunately the web frontend isn't quite as good, so if you are dependent on something like this then don't use it.
I've been a Runbox customer for many years. Never had any problem with them. They're located in privacy-friendly Norway.
Been very impressed with Runbox since Andy turned out to be an idiot.
Tutanota
Seconded, but they just go by Tuta now.
I made it, so I’m obviously very biased, but I think it’s better than Proton. It’s got some really useful organization and anti-spam features.
The labeling idea is pretty interesting, an email service with inbuilt proxy, but your website is pretty light on details. Stuff like pricing or custom domain support is absent.
Good point. I’ll add that.
I’m working on custom domain support right now. And pricing is pretty straightforward, since I only have extra storage and sending options. You get 500MB for free, and the ability to receive email. Sending is $1/month. I put that behind a paywall to prevent spammers from using Port87. As a small email service, if you send spam, the big players can blocklist you and kill your service. So, keeping my SMTP servers’ IP address reputation high is really important.
You can join the Discord to follow along with new features and updates:
"...join the Discord..."
Aaaaand I'm out.
Not OP, but I’ve been using Fastmail for a few years now and have had no issues with them.
Same, I just switched over to them and have had a good experience with it.
Tutanota has been pretty decent to me, though their android client is sometimes a little rough around the edges. Though never in a way that's caused problems for me or impaired usage, and it has a pretty enough interface.
They have a free plan if you're broke as shit like I am and are looking to switch from a free proton plan
Posteo is good. Have been using them for 2 years now.
Migadu!
I've got an account with tilde.club
They even have a newsgroup service for the tilde community. It's not full on Usenet and there aren't any hosted files, but it's a nice community feature.
You get a gigabyte soft cap (three gig hard cap and a week grace period to get back to soft cap) but it actually talks to google, for the time being, and I've been making an attempt at migrating to the point of using gmail as a 'talking ot my republican family' and 'spam' account.
I think im going to try it out. I dont like where proton is going.
https://tilde.club/signup/ https://tilde.club/wiki/faq.html
Remember. This is a hobbiest community. Personal recommendation is using tilde.club for emails, and spread your other needs across other tilde servers.
Yes commandline interaction is required.
Save your SSH keys not just on your computer but in a couple other secure places. If you have to pull them from backup, remember to reset the file's permissions otherwise SSH won't like them. Setting up a password backup is very helpful here especially since that will let you use your mail address with apps such as k-9 on android, or claws/thunderbird/outlook for desktop.
oh yeah def. Im going to donate if/when I take a look. sdf also has something similar.
SDF's been, in my experiance, less sure? I don't want to talk trash about what is effectivly pubnix's grandaddy. I'm going to put money in the pot because I want that place to keep running, but i view it more as curiosity than cornerstone.
Hotmail. Been using it since high school and every data breach and fuck up taught me something new.
Does Proton really support Trump? A deeper analysis
One thing to note is that while on Reddit, people are alleging that Proton is a company run by a fascist, pro-MAGA, pro-dictatorship CEO, users on X are accusing Andy and the company of being anti-MAGA/anti-Trump.
So, in the face of all the evidence I’ve found, to compare Andy to a tech oligarch like Zuck and Elon, who are now bootlicking on display for all to see, is not supported by the evidence.
[...]
However, being disillusioned with one party on one issue doesn’t mean that all of a sudden Andy Yen changed all of his stances and that now he’s actually pro-Republican or pro-MAGA. All of the evidence gathered suggests the exact opposite.
Considering how many users here have expressed similar disillusionment with the current Democratic party, it seems a bit hypocritical to judge Andy Yen for having the same feelings (or expressing them on occasion).
This whole "Proton supports MAGA" thing is another example of internet mob-think where everybody has an opinion informed by no facts at all, actively ignores or dismisses the larger context in order to protect that fragile opinion from reality, and most haven't even looked at the original statements that sparked the controversy.
Considering how many users here have expressed similar disillusionment with the current Democratic party, it seems a bit hypocritical to judge Andy Yen for having the same feelings (or expressing them on occasion).
The only thing Yen should have done to be credible is shut the fuck up and not take any side, or express any political opinion. I expect no less from the CEO of a company that pretends to sell me privacy from a neutral country.
I'm not saying Yen is a raging magat. I'm saying the moment he opened his trap about US politics, he tainted his company and damaged its credibility.
Ah yes, I too require everyone else to only express views that agree with my own or else keep silent. Of course, I am the only person allowed to have nuanced opinions.
🤡
“10 years ago, Republicans were the party of big business and Dems stood for the little guys, but today the tables have completely turned.”
Yen said this as our government is being devoured by someone with massive conflicts of interest. In no way is this nuanced. It was in extremely poor taste and the worst time to say something political.
We don't use real names on the internet for a reason. CEOs that use their own names as platforms should have a department (or at least a publicist) take a look at their posts as it can effect a company.
People are leaving the platform now because of something pretty avoidable.
It’s not “his” company, the company is owned by the Proton foundation (of whatever it’s exactly called)
Yeah Yen is an idiot, but his power is more limited than with a normal CEO company structure and the Swiss law is a lot stricter than the competitors law in like Germany.
Just like with any of these mail servers, buy your own domain just incase the company switches gears and starts selling your data or whatnot
It’s not “his” company
I meant "his" the same way I say "my" company: it's not mine, but it's where I work and who I work for.
Sure sure. The guy who unprompted endorsed a trump appointment that has deep US Telco ties, bizarrly said "the GOP is the party for the little guy," had nothing but wonderful things to say about J.D vance, stated that Chuck Schumer slow rolled 2 internet privacy bills because of "quid pro quo" with his daughters working for big tech, used the phrase "triggered" unprompted, and just randomly added "88" to the end of his new user name.
Yeah, that guy is just neutral and disillusioned with the Democratic party. It's not utterly clear what spaces and politics he aligns with. That would just be wholley unknowable.
It’s not utterly clear what spaces and politics he aligns with. That would just be wholley unknowable.
Well you're right, of course, his alignment is knowable. In fact, if you read the article I linked, there's lots of context for knowing his alignment. Maybe you should try reading it.
You're going to have to bring receipts for those other claims.
It wasn't unprompted - he was literally replying to the announcement of the appointment on Twitter. An announcement of a person he thought would be great for a role that he's apparently been advocating for action against big tech in for years.
He's born in 1988 you dolt.
The ugliest thing about Lemmy I've noticed so far is that it enjoys disinformation just as much as Reddit - as long as it fits the circlejerk, updoots this way.
Huh, I noticed you cherry picked two things to try to refute (interesting that you ignored him hiding "88" in binary and the fact he specifically tagged Trump in that tweet) and ignored all the others I listed. Its almost like you want to spread disinfo about how this is a non issue instead of actually digging into it.
Explain his fandom for J.D vance (a tech millionaire funded by the biggest, most privacy invading, facebook funding, Palentir creating tech billionaire ever, Peter theil) while endlessly criticizing Chuck Schumer, his statement that the GOP "was there for the little guy," that the GOP was going to take on big tech even while they bent the knee and were donating millions directly to Trump in real time, his use of the term "triggered" to describe offending someone, on and on.
Go on, keep excusing all the clear MAGA "mask on" indicators. Tell us why a CEO in a foreign country, that keeps heaping praise on one party while using their cultural shibboleths, also "coincidentally" used an in-group dog whistle, is actually totally non partisan. That should be easy, right?
This comment is a perfect example of why I have written https://loudwhisper.me/blog/proton-fediverse-burnout/
The 88 thing is the complete tip of the iceberg for me. I can't honestly imagine the thought process needed to reach a conclusion that a Taiwanese guy (8 is a lucky number) born in '88 would put that number as a dog-whistle (which is not really part of his own cultural landscape) for Nazis, while dealing with a PR issue.
It's like looking at a crashed car, tire marks on the ground and suggesting it must have been a sharknado and not a car accident.
Nicely written blog post, it actually sums it up pretty nicely imo
Thanks, I appreciate it.
"Hide your power level" mask on behavior from the alt right love to play these plausible deniability games while still signaling their actual intent. You see it with the "my heart goes out to" or "i'm just autisitc" cover for musks nazi salute, or the "he was just waving" Bannon nazi salute. They made a nazi salute, but of course it cant be a nazi salute, wink wink.
I honestly find the 88 to be a faint indicator in this case, but it was a wildly tone deaf one if so. When someone claiming neutrality is making very partisan endorsements for a party that's steeped in all of the same memetic game playing, you cant ignore the dog whistles.
The problem is that those arguments are not falsifiable. If not one, but two completely reasonable explanation cannot convince you of someone motivations, nothing can. However, I don't care if Musk did or did not a Nazi salute. His actions speak much louder (in a bad sense) than the aesthetic that he decides to adopt. Proton donation pattern for example would be a strong indicator to measure intentions.
but it was a wildly tone deaf one if so
Maybe. But also maybe people are allowed to have different cultural references, and in a global context (i.e., the internet) we should expect diversity. I - for example - had never heard of this 88 thing, and I would definitely not think about it at all the next time I create a username, and I didn't think it when I went to a barber shop that has that number in the name. Likewise, I wouldn't call anybody writing "Merry Xmas" tone deaf for missing the reference to the X MAS of infamous history (and just recently in the news). For some people it's apparently impossible to see their culture as non-universal (at the cost of sounding stereotypical, folks from US have particularly this problem after decades of cultural hegemony).
for a party that’s steeped in all of the same memetic game playing, you cant ignore the dog whistles
This all happened before Musk/Bannon salute. Just to specify it.
A lot of human actions are unfalsifiable because we can't read minds. That why inference about what people say and do is important.
Musks and others nazi salute is just a reference to this behaviour writ large. It's not the beginning of it at all. Nazi and alt right groups have been doing dog whistles for decades, and the internet has proved a fertile ground for the behavior.
Its fine to not be aware of things like "88" or "14 words" or the like, but they are dog whistle memes used by racists and nazis, the people the mainstream right has been shifting towards for years and years. You very well may have some cultural touchstones that coincidentally use the same memes without that racist context, but when you're applauding the racists and using the terms at the same time?
Satre has a great quote about how facists dont care about what they say or do, as language is just a game to them:
Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.
Jean-Paul Sartre
This game is wholley embraced by racists, so giving people "the benefit of the doubt" plays right into their game of feigning decroum while ramping up hate.
Again this may be an unfortunate coincidence for the proton CEO, but that does not undermine the overall point that he currently appears steeped in rightwing ideology, and that is not okay for someone claiming to uphold freedom and privacy.
Lastly, Protons past donations are laudable, but plenty of groups had laudable donations before they became vile. Look at google's past philanthropy as an example, or their since retired "dont be evil" motto. They certainly don't live up to those standards today, and it looks like Proton is on the same course.
I agree with you on the principle. In this case I disagree with the premise. Years of actions I think easily out weight that tweet. If that's the only reason to be suspicious, then I don't think it's warranted.
Yen is an idiot yes I don’t anybody can disagree on that one.
But he was born in 88 and while it is well known on the internet the general public doesn’t know it’s other meaning (except the Germans and maybe the American’s).
I live in NL and I can ask around and the majority of people will not know what it means. Probably the same with 34, 69 en 420 for the matter.
I also don’t believe that endorsing one statement means that you agree with the entire pov of the person/party, but I am not American.
Believe what you want and the best thing is to just use a personal domain for your email
At least personally I agree with the part of his statement about the corporate capture of the democratic party, I don't think that's the part most people have a problem with imo. It was saying that republicans are now the party of the little guy, or more likely to tackle abuses by big tech that was dumb. Obviously neither party is going to seriously go after any abuse or anything, but the richest tech CEO is blatantly running the country under the republican president, so saying they're "more likely" to help is straight up a lie lol. I don't think calling Andy a fascist is correct either, but I also very much disagree with his opinions of the republican party. Under either party billionaires and corporations are in control, but Trump is definitely not making that better at all.
And honestly all things considered Lina Khan was a pretty great FTC chair tbh, and Johnathan Kanter was pretty decent as the head of the antitrust division too. He was probably a lot better than Gail Slater will be. She's literally a VP in a few different big companies, so touting her as a champion of the people against the abuses of big tech feels either misinformed or disingenuous.
There is not and never was any endorsement of Trump. I wish people would stop spreading such wild disinformation.
He also never backpedaled.
Here is the tweet - if that's not the most flagrant Trump bootlicking, I don't know what is:
And here is the backpedal:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ProtonMail/comments/1i2nz9v/on_politics_and_proton_a_message_from_andy/
Believe what you will. I believe what I read.
Here is the tweet
I know exactly what you're referring to.
if that's not the most flagrant Trump bootlicking, I don't know what is
I agree, you don't know what is. Agreeing with a single decision someone makes is not an endorsement. But that's exactly the kind of irrational dichotomic reaction I expect from society these days.
And here is the backpedal
I don't see anything here that could be construed as backpedaling. If he were smart he would have, but if anything, he doubled down several times.
I believe what I read.
You didn't read that, you made it up.
It's kind of stupid to say that Republicans aren't the party of big business anymore. Both parties are parties of big business.
If you want to claim it was a stupid thing to say, I will agree with you 100%. If you want to claim that it was a tacit endorsement specifically of Trump, you are just wrong and spreading disinformation.
I'll sometimes agree with stuff Trump does too, like appointing Tulsi Gabbard, but I'm not going to say this means Republicans have become the party of anti war lol
You agree with Trump about something?! How dare you, nazi!
Any alternatives for their VPN service with port forwarding?
Mullvad (or Mullvad on a router with Adguard)
Mullvad no longer has port forwarding.
There are none of them as good as Proton.
For example, AirVPN hasn't had any security audits and doesn't seem too interested in them either due to monetary concerns. That's a deal breaker for me.
Airvpn, or Azirevpn if you're ok with few servers
Of those I've only used Azire, and it worked well. I've seen Airvpn recommended often though
Just did the transition off Proton! Most replacement self hosted in my homelab except for email.