There is no “both sides” to Donald Trump’s threat to democracy
There is no “both sides” to Donald Trump’s threat to democracy
Just because Republicans choose unreality doesn’t mean the media should ignore the facts of January 6.
Just because Republicans choose unreality doesn’t mean the media should ignore the facts of January 6.
On January 6, 2021, I watched CNN as thousands of Donald Trump supporters stormed the US Capitol. As someone well-versed in watching tragedy on television, I was struck by just how indisputable the facts were at the time: violent, red-hat-clad MAGA rioters, followed by Republicans in Congress, tried to stop democracy in its tracks. Trump had told his followers that the protest in Washington, DC, “will be wild,” and in the assault that followed his speech, some rioters smeared feces on the walls of the Capitol. Hundreds of them have since been convicted on charges ranging from assault on federal officers to seditious conspiracy. These are stubborn facts, the kind that do not care about your feelings. These facts include the inalienable truth that Trump is the first president in American history to reject the peaceful transfer of power.
It never occurred to me that these facts could somehow be perverted by partisanship. But three years later, we are seeing just that, as Republicans cling to the lie that the 2020 election was “stolen” by Joe Biden and are poised to make Trump their 2024 nominee. And perhaps even more dangerous than the GOP ditching reality is the news media’s inability to cover Trumpism as the threat to democracy that it very much is.
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But the problem is, when all you have is conventional political framing, everything looks like politics as usual. One candidate makes a claim; the other disputes it. Two sides are divided, etc. This framing only works if both parties operate within the frameworks of a shared reality. But Trumpism doesn’t allow for the reality the rest of us inhabit. Trump’s supporters believe their leader’s reality and not, say, the reality the rest of us see with our eyes. As Trump once told a crowd: “Don’t believe the crap you see from these people, the fake news. What you’re seeing and what you’re reading is not what’s happening.”
Journalists may be well-intentioned in trying to be “objective,” or they’re simply afraid of being labeled partisan. Either way, coverage of January 6 that gives equal weight to both sides—one based in reality, one not—is helping pave the road for authoritarianism.
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Try telling this to the “gEnOciDE jOe” clowns, because they are the ones that need to understand this- not the trumpers. Trumpers are too far gone. They won’t listen to reason.
But these ‘single issue’ kids that are grassrooting the ideology that not voting is better than a vote for “genocide” are going to fuck around and find out the hard way when they get Trump installed as a permanent fixture in the White House.
Ok, let me preface this by OF COURSE Biden is by far the lesser evil compared to Trump, OF COURSE single issue voting is some Republican style bullshit and OF COURSE Trump would be even more supportive of a fascist government committing genocide, being a fascist war crime fanboy himself.
That being said, people who are outraged by Biden's continued support of and thus enabling of genocide DO have a point. He's supposed to represent the interests of every American who's not a fascist, not those of a fascist apartheid regime currently committing the worst genocide since the Balkan wars in the 90s.
Just because the other guy is a much greater evil doesn't mean that you can't hold your own guy accountable for supporting evil. With Trump the only alternative, voting for him is a given, but giving him a free pass shouldn't be.
Uh, what we are talking about is people who are already saying they won't vote for Biden. I run into this a lot. It's terrifying to know a significant part of the electorate are so myopic they would install Trump forever to "make a point".
It truly doesn't matter if they have a point, if the only end result is not voting or throwing their vote away on a third party. If Trump wins, they will be a big part of how.
"voting is the only way to create change" is the mentality that got us here.
You know why George Floyd's murderer was the only one who got the sentence he deserved? Because the people demanded it by threatening capital.
So what are you suggesting?
That people need to start by stopping this "only voting matters" narrative that so many push. I know people try to counter that by saying that people are overworked and don't have time for protests or any other direct action, but the Labor Movement was done by people working 70ish hour weeks.
More people need to be willing to protest. Until they are, things aren't going to meaningfully get better.
Right now, the message I get from a lot of these conversations here is that the President is allowed to have a little genocide as a treat because otherwise there could be more genocide. It's completely insane.
Right now, the message I get from a lot of these conversations here is that the President is allowed to have a little genocide as a treat because otherwise there could be more genocide. It's completely insane.
No you don't
Anyone insisting that the only way to move forward is to vote for someone who is promoting genocide is effectively saying that, yes.
We’re saying the only way to avoid a trump wanna be dictatorship, and even longer term fucking of the US, which is allowing Biden to lose.
We need a general strike and to eat the rich if that doesn’t work, but we also need a president that won’t call out the troops (real ones or bullshit fanbois) when we protest.
We’re saying the only way to avoid a trump wanna be dictatorship, and even longer term fucking of the US, which is allowing Biden to lose.
Biden could stop supporting genocide if he doesn't want to lose votes of people for whom genocide is a dealbreaker.
I'm voting for biden, but I expect you will ignore this sentence.
I’m still hoping Biden has the balls to tell Netanyahu to fuck off.
However, I assume the calculation between voters who’ll drop him after conflating support for Israel with support for the Jewish people are greater than, or at least the same as, voters who are dropping him now for allowing this Palestinian genocide.
It’s a lose-lose choice the Dems, which is exactly why it seems likely that Russia convinced Iran to back Hamas’ attack in the first place (Israel’s Apartheid is still the reason terrorists felt they had no other option). It might be a crazy conspiracy, but that’s where we ended up, however it started.
I’m with you though that it sucks that our only rational choice is to vote for not-a-wannabe-dictator, when thousands of people’s lives are currently at stake.
I wouldn’t say it’s completely insane.
It’s a modification of the trolley problem. The “do nothing” path goes downhill and has a hell of a lot more bodies. The switched path still has bodies but at least it’s uphill and you’ll have a chance to slow it down or stop it.
Who said to do nothing? I'm saying this path is also terrible.
We as a people, and specifically the commenters who insist these are the only options, are consciously choosing between the two paths that lead to genocide. We are specifically saying we are too comfortable and indifferent to demand the changes to prevent it.
That's insane.
These guys all want violent revolution, right up until it's their time to pick up a rifle.
I think what the morons want is trump. I'm really worried about how common this braindead opinion is. They're actually going to vote against Biden because of Israel. We're fucked.
If you're that worried that reaction to our government enabling a genocide is risking the election or whatever, maybe blame the people doing the enabling rather than the people disgusted by them.
These guys all want violent revolution, right up until it’s their time to pick up a rifle.
"These guys" could just be foreign conflict bots, trying to promote mayhem.
"Everyone who is less than ecstatic about the genocide I love can't possibly be genuine. It must be an international conspiracy because no one could possibly oppose genocide."
“Everyone who is less than ecstatic about the genocide I love can’t possibly be genuine. It must be an international conspiracy because no one could possibly oppose genocide.”
Where's that quote from? Is it made up?
Generally speaking, you'd have to be very naive to assume that foreign nationals would not want to affect the population of potential enemies, and try to manipulate them with specific narratives. The interconnection of the species, communication wise, has good points and bad points.
You know exactly what he's suggesting and he's probably right to do so.
Stop playing stupid and stop trying to shut down people who say such things. It's not gonna work, you're not gonna convince anyone to not fight for what they believe in, hit the road if you don't like it.
As long as we are drawing the line in the sand as "reality" the truth is much more stark. We already live in a nation controlled by oligarchs and the vote has already been robbed of what little power it ever had. In a sense accelerationism isn't so much accelerating the decline of US democracy but accelerating its suspended funeral.
It’s terrifying to know a significant part of the electorate are so myopic they would install Trump forever to “make a point”.
People don't like being manipulated to vote a certain way, they get angry when that is done to them. They realize that other citizens had died for their right to vote, and they hold it sacred.
And when you're angry, you tend to make dumb mistakes.
How many of us know the stance of the people they're going to vote for, when it comes to ranked choice voting?
It’s not just ‘throwing the baby away with the bath water ‘, it’s burning down the whole fucking country just because mommy didn’t give you candy.
Where "mommy didn't give you candy" in this case is "the guy you're being screamed at to vote for is supporting genocide."
Just because you don't think genocide is a big deal, that doesn't mean you don't need the votes of those that do.
I'm voting for Biden, but that doesn't mean I don't recognize that some people won't, and that his support for genocide is the reason.
Criticizing Biden's handling of the war is not just allowed, but encouraged. His handling of it is dog shit.
What's naive and stupid to do is refuse to vote for him because of it, when the threat is a person who bragged about becoming a dictator and retaliating against anyone he dislikes.
It's neat how you completely ignored the entire first paragraph of the comment.
All well and good, but these idiot kids are actually refusing to vote for him over this single issue. I agree that It’s fine to be bothered how he’s handling things- even if they’re a bit misunderstood on how things actually work- I mean, sure…it’s bothering.
But this is the biggest “I’m cutting off my nose to spite my face” America will EVER see.
If we want to win, we need to appeal to people who disagree with your support for genocide, no matter how much you hate them.
Nobody hates you, we're just sick of idealists in a time when we need pragmatists.
I'm sick of genocide
Do you think any person elected to the presidency wouldn't continue supporting Israel? To cut off funding and weapons to Israel would be absolute political suicide in this country. Don't care if it's Biden, Trump, Desantis, doesn't matter. Israel will continue to get $Billions and weapons. It's just the way it is.
Do you think any person elected to the presidency wouldn’t continue supporting Israel?
cornel west and jill stein would.
But neither of them will win. So they’re both irrelevant.
where did you get your crystal ball?
And neither of them have the slightest hope of winning
well not with that attitude
Well said.
If you actually believed that, and weren't an idealist centrism and genocide yourself, you would pragmatically demand a primary to choose a candidate who could win and not try and demand unearned votes through shaming.
You're as pragmatic as a college kid carrying around a dog-eared copy of 'Atlas Shrugged'
So your solution is to make it easier for Trump to win? You know that would make things even worse?
The only thing that is making it easier for Trump to win is Biden's unwavering support for the genocide centrists have evidently always wanted.
Do you realize that the war won't stop with the orangeoutan right?
For the love of fuck, how many times do I have to tell you genocide supporters that I don't support Trump?
Lol, I never said that you were, second, why do you think that I support war?
You misspelled 'genocide' as 'war'
If only there was a democratic process to choose the Democratic nomination for president... Man, that would be such a great idea. I wonder why no one thought of it?
THE SOLUTION WOULD BE TO HAVE A FUCKING PRIMARY, and not, you know un-democratically ban other candidates for the nomination in 10% of the states, so far.
You're the ones with a genocidal candidate you want everyone else to vote for. It's your job to find a solution to get people to vote for him, if you don't want to have a contest to decide who people would vote for as the democratic nomination.
Right, how could someone not want to vote for someone because they support genocide? How ludicrous.
I'll still vote for Biden because I'll already be in the booth, but sitting back and acting like this is our only option is nonsense.
Voting alone does not create change. Labor Movement, Women's Suffrage, Civil Rights, all were accomplished by active resistance and here you are spouting nonsense about how we should all just participate in the system that's circling the drain instead of disrupting it.
The longer you all take to come around the worse it will get, no matter which major party is in the Oval Office.
You idiots are going to find out pretty quick why you should have voted, if Trump wins. I hope you like genocides much closer to home.
I’ll still vote for Biden
You idiots are going to find out pretty quick why you should have voted
Centrists would rather lecture than listen.
I literally said I'd vote for him.
Your inability to actually discuss the argument instead of just simping for your genocidal Uncle Joe is pathetic.
People wonder how average Germans allowed the Nazi party to go so far. We are talking about literal fucking genocide and you come in here and says "but it's the best version of genocide we got" while throwing up your hands and immediately insulting anyone who complains.
It's no wonder things keep going so far when we continue lowering the bar and there's still simps willing to lecture people while their Party helps commit mass murder.
I love how readily you dehumanized the people getting killed over there so you could easily suck the Dems. Typical liberal.
The people who can find a way to excuse, minimize or ignore Biden's military and political support for genocide could probably find a way to excuse, minimize or ignore just about anything. There is no bottom, only partisanship and convenience.
Sure, but if you're planning on sticking around in America, or care about its influence worldwide, shouldn't you at least try to steer it towards the least worst option?
The only people who have influence around here are the wealthy and corporations. I don't think two choices between two old genocidal men is the best example of saving democracy, as you can tell people still suffered and died under the "harm reduction" guy.
So just do nothing then. That’ll show em both!
Well get to pushing Biden left. I'm sure it will work out this time.
You right, its best to let trump win and let the whole world lurch wildly to the right like last time
Biden and Dem messaging is doing a great job at handing Trump victory. The only things liberals seem to do is yell for voter out reach.
You are once again corrent, doing nothing then complaining about it is clearly the best option
Fuckin gottem
the least worst option is cornel west.
no one calls me a kid any more, and this single issue is the straw that broke the camel's back.
I strongly suspect that these one issue kids have no idea of what is going on in the Mideast
Israel was attacked by Hamas and Hezbollah. The over the top response by Netanyahu is much like you would get from the orange wanna-be dictator. Israel is under threat by Iran too. The arms sent were a show of force least any other hostile countries decide to pile on. Biden has been forceful with Israel behind the scenes, placing conditions on the use of the arms and pushing Israel to back off. He can't do so publicly because it would let the hostile countries sense a weakness. Kids are triggered by emotions and fail to dig for news contrary to their biases because it doesn't reinforce their need for an anger dopamine rush - much like MAGAs.
It is so much easier to sit on ones ass rather than to do the hard work of being intelligently informed and to create change"I look with commiseration over the great body of my fellow citizens who, reading newspapers, live and die in the belief they have known something of what has been passing in the world around them" - Harry Truman
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There is nothing nuanced about the indiscriminate slaughter of 1% of the Gazan population. So far. Trying to create nuance around genocide, is genocide denial. Nothing more.
To you "Never Again" meant "Never Again, unless..."
Also, I can't believe you'd use a Harry Truman quote. Dude was so fucking stupid, even he knew how unprepared for the job he was. He was literally elected Senator because the local Democratic power broker couldn't find anyone else willing to be his man in the Senate.
Also, not a fucking kid. I'm 40 fucking years old, and I see the same stupid Democratic party leaders making the same fucking mistake and being shocked when the same thing happens. Fucking boomers, who are unwilling to give up power until it is pried from their stupid, lead-tainted, selfish fucking dead hands.
Biden has been forceful with Israel behind the scenes, placing conditions on the use of the arms and pushing Israel to back off. He can’t do so publicly because it would let the hostile countries sense a weakness.
Neat fanfic. He hasn't done any of this at all.
Ok, let me preface this by OF COURSE Biden is by far the lesser evil compared to Trump, OF COURSE single issue voting is some Republican style bullshit and OF COURSE Trump would be even more supportive of a fascist government committing genocide, being a fascist war crime fanboy himself.
If you hadn't prefixed your comment with this, centrists who can't defend their enthusiastic support for genocide for its own sake would be calling you a trumpist.
Yeah, I know from vast experience 😮💨
You'll notice that you have to disclaim for a whole paragraph about how Biden is better than Trump, which of course he is, but no centrist has to similarly disclaim that they even dislike genocide at all.
Because none of them do.
Nothing about understanding the danger Trump poses makes you a "centrist" or "enthusiastic support" for genocide. Please grow up.
Nothing about questioning Biden's support for genocide means I want Trump to win. But you'll ignore that I'm voting for Biden as long as you never have to examine your love for genocide for its own sake.
Well put. But right now, folks who agree are missing the nuance and going to stay home. So not the time for intellectualizing to the choir. Let's just stop saying the quiet part aloud already. We all fucking know what the DNC is. Enough is enough. Can we have a fucking conversation about Trump and autocracy and Nazis without a fucking comment about Biden? You're just regurgitating the both sides bullshit with an asterisk that you'll vote, but the people reading are just doubling down not voting. Stop giving this oxygen. It's enough.
This is correct. I despise Trump. When I voted for Biden, I understood I was voting for a 1 term president to allow Democrats 4 years to get their house in order. They haven't and they don't intend to.
The truth is that a vote for shit or slightly less shit is still shit. We've allowed two mega corporations in the DNC and RNC to monopolize our politics.
The only solution is a 3rd party. Voting for Biden or Trump just keeps the shit rolling. Sucks that Democrats might have a Ross Perot moment with Trump on the ballot, but they had time to bring up anyone else to fill the role, and they didn't. I have the luxury of living in Tennessee, so my vote doesn't matter, something else they promised to fix and didn't. But anyone who wants to call me an idealist or pearl clutcher needs to wake up.
The truth is that a vote for shit or slightly less shit is still shit
Oh look, the same tired old "both sides" bullshit.
Yep. If donnie gets back in there, do these purity ponies think unquestioning support of Israel will stop?
Centrists look down on people for disliking genocide.
I would rather not vote than vote for someone whose first response to a genocide is rushing as many American military assets and weapons as possible to enable it.
You do realize that not everyone in your country has fully assimilated to your extremely chauvinist worldview right?
What's chauvinist about not wanting to make a bad situation worse?
It's the orientation that enabling a genocide is somehow excusable when it's "your guy", combined with the implicit understanding that something to do with foreign policy (itself a chauvinist term) shouldn't affect how people vote when bad things at home are at stake. Like it's sports or something.
I'm sensitive to this because I just don't have the luxury of disregarding what happens to brown and brown-adjacent people as a result of US "foreign policy". The bad situation we're in is directly the result of decisions made (and being refused to get made) by our harm reduction president and his administration.
It's the orientation that enabling a genocide is somehow excusable when it's "your guy",
No it's not. Voting for someone doesn't mean you think they're ok.
Voting for someone doesn’t mean you think they’re ok.
I get that people are capable of doing that, but I don't find the party which is completely unreachable on the genocide they're participating in as a credible alternative to the openly fascist party.
The "gEnOcIDe JoE" clowns see a Republican fascist and a Democrat skirting our political system to fund fascists, backed by a party doing nothing to stop fascists from taking over every system in the country cause all the broken shit being used is broken shit the dems use too.
As long as dems tell anyone left of Biden to eat shit regardless of what their "voters" say, voting blue "no matter who" doesn't stop the march to fascism, it just delays it by 4 years.
I’m sure conservatives will appreciate their help in November.
You keep furiously masturbating to this quick easy textual "sound bite" but nobody can actually refute the point that a vote for dems is just a vote for fascists to continue amassing power in the background to do the thing next time.
It's weird how y'all want the fascism but just harp about democrats in a bid to avoid the label. Any vote for either established party is a vote for Trump or the next faschie, full stop.
did you read what they wrote?
liberal democracies are incubators for fascism.
Yeah I'm perfectly aware.
So are democrats, but we're not allowed to address the explicit elephant in the room because democrats think hurting faschie feelings is equal to fascism. So I'll ask what I asked elsewhere in this thread -
What are democrats doing to stop them besides just keeping them from doing it for 4 more years (while faschies continue unimpeded by democrats fucking everything from the local up in the meantime?)
As a trans person, another four years is probably another four years of being allowed to be alive. I fucking hate dems but I love being not being murdered. It sucks that my options are vote for the folks who will let brown kids die, or vote for the folks who will let brown kids die AND kill me. My vote doesn’t actually matter because my state will be redder than Zhang Yufang’s tampons, admittedly.
If every person who cries about how the two options sucked voted for a third party we'd have a viable flourishing third party. Maybe a fourth by now.
Cool story, now show us a historical precedent for that happening.
"Nobody's done it so it can't be done cHeKmAtE lOoSeRz now vote for the guy who sidestepped congress to fund genocide instead of the guy who wants to sidestep congress to commit genocide!"
So you admit he’s complicit in aiding a genocide, yet refuse to be principled enough to hold him accountable?
Why would centrists hold anyone accountable for doing what they want?
Just wanted to make sure they know they have no convictions.