Zelenskyy ‘victory plan’ summit in doubt after Joe Biden pulls out
Zelenskyy ‘victory plan’ summit in doubt after Joe Biden pulls out
US president prepares for landfall of Hurricane Milton as German chancellor says meeting will be rescheduled
Joe Biden has called off a four-day trip to Germany this week that had been intended to culminate in a summit to discuss Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s “victory plan” for Ukraine.
The White House said on Tuesday evening that the president would stay at home “to oversee preparations for and the response” to Hurricane Milton, which is expected to make landfall in Florida on Wednesday.
It was not clear how Biden’s absence would affect the planned summit, the first time world leaders were due to gather at the Ramstein US airbase, normally the location of a regular meeting of defence ministers to discuss military aid for Kyiv.
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Biden didn't necessarily pull out of the summit. He's attending to the natural disaster that is happening in the country that he is president of. Jesus fucking christ.
And it would do Ukraine far more harm than good if the hurricane was bad and Trump could frame it as Biden visiting Ukraine instead of attending to it. He's been doing it over Helene even when the response was unilaterally viewed as acceptable.
I think the word you want is universally. Unilaterally could mean that just one side viewed it as ok.
Yah, my brain had them sharing neurons I guess. Thanks!
Bingo.
Right? It's like not showing up to the Monday morning meeting because your basement flooded. Give the man credit where it's due
They never do. Biden was a good president. And yet, everybody hates him. The right hate him, because they hate everybody on the left. The left hate him for reasons I don't understand. He's the modern day Jimmy Carter. Great president that for some reason has his merrits diminished for reasons I may never understand.
The left hate him for reasons I don’t understand.
Most don't, actually. But of the (probably small) subset who do:
Basically feel he's too rightward. He had to shift right in order to win over some split ticket never trumper votes, which likely tipped him over the edge into winning the presidency. Then had to stay rightward in order to make sure he (or Harris now) wins re-election. Harris too is now coming off as more centralist and less progressive than she was in, for example, 2019.
Some lefties are also worried because they feel scandalized by what happened with Hunter Biden. This doesn't really reflect on Joe imho but a few on the left disagree.
I seriously doubt going to the center wins any votes in the general. The type of people who think conservative policy is good for society are gonna vote Republican no matter how stupid and fascist it is. "Shifting right wins over never Trumpers" is a line that works on people during the primary when everyone is on the left anyway, but in the end it's an excuse to more deeply entrench the oligarchy and it turns off people who need something to be excited about in order to bother coming out for the general. Like, I can't imagine young voters were happy to hear Harris at the debate talking about how she's going to expand oil drilling.
Biden won because leftists were energized about getting Trump out of office, not because centrism won over conservatives. In fact, I think the centrism is why he was projected to lose this year! His presidency went fine considering the senate, but fact is he didn't do a whole lot to get people interested. Gaffes and age notwithstanding, even a perfect public speaker wouldn't have had much to work with. That's why the switch to Harris got the poll numbers moving: it was a big move that got people engaged. But I firmly believe every move she makes to the center is doing more to turn off leftist voters than it is wresting people from the right.
I seriously doubt going to the center wins any votes in the general.
I think this is the only point where we have a real disagreement. There were indeed folks who split their ticket in 2020 - voting for Biden-Harris but otherwise voting for all GOP, see https://www.texastribune.org/2020/11/16/split-ticket-voting-texas-republicans/
See also this chart, showing that such a split ticket is about 4% out of everyone who voted: https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/wp-content/uploads/
sites/4/2020/10/PP_2020.10.21_split-icket-voting_0-01.pngNow, it just says that 4% of voters split R/D. But I can't imagine anything more than a negligible amount were from Dems who voted for you-know-who as President. Therefore, that 4% can be attributed to Republicans who voted for Biden.
Maybe this would have happened anyways, but I suspect that going rightward made this kind of split easier for those folks to swallow.
Finally, look at the small margins that Biden won on the swing states according to https://www.npr.org/2020/12/02/940689086/narrow-wins-in-these-key-states-powered-biden-to-the-presidency. So what this could mean, assuming that the 4% holds generally, is that the 4% difference cause by split voting is greater than the margin that Biden won in those swing states. If Biden was too leftie, he might have lost those votes - and those states - and the Electoral College.
in the end it’s an excuse to more deeply entrench the oligarchy and it turns off people who need something to be excited about in order to bother coming out for the general.
I feel like Harris is coming up with new strategies on this point to compenstate, like getting on "Call Me Daddy" and Howard Stern, along with powerful endorsements such as Taylor Swift's.
I can’t imagine young voters were happy to hear Harris at the debate talking about how she’s going to expand oil drilling.
Yeah, it shows what a struggle it is to go with the centralism strategy - staying too far left may cost the votes needed to win the EC but going too far right may cause faithful voters to sit the election out, which may cost the popular vote - and thus the EC if it's bad enough.
Biden won because leftists were energized about getting Trump out of office,
Agreed, this was definitely a reason
not because centrism won over conservatives.
I think both might have been contributing actually.
And there are probably many others. Here's one third factor - 2020's election happened just mere months after the pandemic. The president at the time was in denial and a lot of people died due to the mismanaged response - and that may have been reflected in the votes.
I think the centrism is why he was projected to lose this year! Gaffes and age notwithstanding, even a perfect public speaker wouldn’t have had much to work with.
My impression was that Dem party leadership and donors took action after seeing the debate - and that was primarily because of age and gaffes. Of course, upper management and the wealthy tend to skew someone conservative anyways so perhaps not the best sample.
But I firmly believe every move she makes to the center is doing more to turn off leftist voters than it is wresting people from the right.
I really hope this is not true. I kinda feel she really needs both sets of votes right now to win. It didn't seem to be true in 2020 - but of course 2024 is a different year, and more importantly Harris is a very different candidate from Biden.
I was thinking how biden seems like carter. honestly though I think biden accomplished more with less.
Some on the left "hate" him because of Kremlin propaganda on social media.
But hey, YOUR narrative doesn't fit the algorithm! You know the one - the bleak and cynical, bOtH pArTiEs ArE tHe SaMe LoL aMiRiTe "too cool for school (and for voting)" narrative!
I thought the headline was in reference to pulling out of the presidental race. I was thinking "We're about a month from election day. Kinda late to bring THAT up, isn't it?
I had the same thought at first, haha.
I think they shouldn't give up here though - if Biden can't go and Harris (his second as VP) also can't go in his place, there must be some cabinet level official who could travel and attend the summit instead.
Given that Harris will be the one actually overseeing the American response to this suggestion pretty soon if she wins the election, it seems to me like she might even be a more fitting representative than Biden
If she wins the election being the key operative word. The race is far from won right now; her attention needs to be on her race. Ukraine does not benefit in the long run if she loses it now.
Would you think that her attending this if Biden is personally handling the hurricane situation would dent her chances? I'm not American so I'm not particularly familiar with how the domestic attitudes to these situations tend to play out
I’m not a political scientist or at all a political expert, so I lack the background to make a supported or definitive statement to that effect. So this is my opinion based on what I’ve seen and read but is otherwise unprofessionally qualified.
Most people probably already know how they would vote if polling day was today. The issue as I see it is not so much about chasing after the undecided voters as much as it driving engagement and enthusiasm upwards such that people actually will go vote. It’s hard to drive that enthusiasm and engagement without facetime, without being on stage giving speeches about the issues, without debating about policies and implementation. With the win/loss margins being so razor thin right now in some of the key battleground states (so-called “swing states”) anything that gets her away from the voters is a distraction that can’t be allowed to manifest.
Yeah, Ukrainian citizens and NATO partners don't vote. If she wants to help Ukraine, she needs to prevent the Kremlin's candidate from winning.
That makes sense to me.