arbilp3 @ arbilp3 @aussie.zone

Posts

291

Comments

420

Joined

6 mo. ago

Moderating

---

I do understand your viewpoint and respect it but cannot agree.

You could posit that Shoebridge said more than the 'comfortable' description of the current govt approach to Israel etc but that this could not be spelled out for fear by the author, Paul Gregoire, of getting into legal trouble, or, that Shoebridge himself did not want to make waves that could damage his Party. We'll never know but speaking like this is often a sign of a system that is 'not comfortable' with openness.

there are often unidentified reasons for policy and decisions

Yes I know but to keep quiet with the bare-faced evidence that your citizens are being assaulted by your ally illegally, to keep quiet about the ongoing murder of Palestinians and the mass destruction of Sthn Lebanon with thousands already killed is very suspect, no matter how hush-hush the reasons might be. The UN has condemned this activity and so should everyone. These are mass crimes. And assaulting foreign nationals on international waters is also breaking the law. Silence is condoning the breakdown of the international order.

Government quietly got Julian Assange home.

We are talking of one high-profile figure and I was overjoyed when our govt finally got him out imprisonment. It saved his life. The above situation is the opposite. Whatever the 'unidentified reasons' for the silence and the continued support directly or indirectly of Israeli military action, it has cost at least 100,000 lives and counting. Keeping silent about that but being super public about supporting the illegal bombing of Iran which has caused thousands more deaths and will probably continue on is... what would you say?

Germans and others were castigated after WW2 for turning a blind eye or supporting what was happening to Jews and other minorities in Europe during the war but what many of us are doing now (including our own govt) looks very similar. I am sure they have 'unidentified reasons' but the result is still criminal and many lives are being obliterated, including tens of thousands of innocent children. I cannot excuse putting people's lives behind political expediency.

Those who put together the principles for journalists document are really worthy of respect. Thank you for sharing.

Perhaps try the Victorian electricians association (I don't know what they're called, but there must be some trade association} and explain your problem and see if they can help in any way. It's a long shot but perhaps worth trying.

If all or most European governments had such similar values, surely more would have spoken out like Spain did. Spain has one of very few left-wing governments in Europe (I think Norway might also have a left govt) with a relatively young prime minister and that is probably a major reason why they call out fascistic actions when they see them. Aside from this, although the European Union presents as a bloc, each country has a very old, rich and unique history. By no means do they have similar political traditions.

Anyway, governments are firstly responsible for the welfare of their citizens and they are meant to publicly object to their ill treatment by other jurisdictions, especially if their citizens were assaulted for no legal reasons by allies with whom we are supposed to share similar democratic values. The Israeli govt has no qualms in complaining pretty publicly about how we don't protect Jewish people enough inside our own country and our govt is bending over backwards to accommodate and respond to those complaints, including running an expensive Royal Commission, changing laws and a whole lot of other changes. Our govt also took side with the Israeli govt and more or less said the Australians in the flotilla got what they deserved for getting involved (not as harshly put but meaning the same). This is while Palestinians continue to be killed and seriously mistreated in a supposed ceasefire.

I do think you are being a bit of an apologist for the Labor govt and I also think Shoebridge knows more about what's happening in the govt than you and I do. 'Comfortable' might be an unfortunate term but it conveys being more than tolerant with the current global status quo and i don't think that can be denied. I guess what Spain is showing is that it is possible to speak out with some moral and democratic authority and not keep quiet out of fear of trade or other reprisals.

Realpolitik yes, but the situation is worse than that.

What happened to the Middle Powers getting together and making a stand?

I go back to the Spain example. It has been loud to condemn plus not collude in the mess churned up by Israel/US re Iran. PM Sanchez made a very publicised public statement very soon after Saif Abu Keshek (Palestinian who also has Spanish/Swedish citizenship) and Thiago Ávila (Brasilian), organisers of the Sumud Flotilla, were illegally taken to Israel for 'special treatment'. He said that no Spanish citizen imprisoned illegally would be left at the mercy of Israel. (If you want the original statement I'll look for it). Thereafter, Spanish newspapers were reporting day by day what was happening to the two hostages. There was additional international pressure and after ten days they were released. That is what self-respecting leaders should be doing when citizens of their countries are apprehended illegally in international waters and bashed - to at least say that it is not acceptable.

Our govt was first cab off the rank to approve the illegal bombing of Iran by US/Israel. It is complicit in approving the breach of international law. This is very serious. If the govt hasn't got the courage to say no to these breaches will it be able to say no when, very likely, we are asked once more by the US to join in the war, seeing as the war is heating up again? I hope it does find some courage. Australia has lost far too many young men over the years to other nations' wars.

You might have already this article by now but if you haven't, take a look when you can and see what you think.: https://www.sydneycriminallawyers.com.au/blog/modern-labor-is-quite-comfortable-with-the-trump-netanyahu-agenda-says-shoebridge/

Meekness or compliance? Taking the easy (more comfortable) way out?

This has turned into more than just 'doing the bare minimum': The way our laws are being affected and freedom of speech curtailed, the way some voices are encouraged to express grievance while others are suppressed is a cause for alarm when these changes are being instigated by a foreign country.

Countries like Spain have managed to stand up and say they will not collude despite having a US base on their soil and Trump's threats to cut trade with them. As far as I know, Trump has not followed through. If more nations did the same we'd have a different scenario. Trump is no longer popular in his own country but I think the international community might be waiting for the mid-term elections. I believe this to be not only meek but cowardly. Thousands of people are being slaughtered.

I also had a Catholic education (all-girls) but it was not as harsh as yours sounds like it was. Nevertheless, I rebelled in high school and asked too many questions (I was given a warning) about the religion. I'm not in touch with any of the people I went to school with but in the early years after school they were a very varied bunch, nuns, divorcees, and non-marriers but that was a long time ago. One thing that I do value about the Catholic education is the social justice aspect which is strong.

You've made me wonder what happened to all the girls I went to school with. Most of them would be grandmothers now.

The Australian colonial 'ruling class' was predominantly Anglican even though many in the convict class and some of the lower army ranks were Catholic. There were also other protestant denominations. In the early days of the colony, in NSW and Tasmania the children of Catholic convicts and all orphans under the care of the colonial government were brought up as Anglicans. As the population grew and more Irish convicts and migrants arrived the Catholic population also grew. If you're interested there's a great summary of the Christian churches in Australia have a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Australia

This is excellent news.

Here in Australia, despite not having the challenges that are experienced in Africa, we still have a long way to design homes that are sustainably built.

Thank you for doing so.

Since September of last year. Not a peep. In the meantime, the antisemitism response is upturning our democracy.

Perhaps she can get a free time machine from Gina. Pauline can then send her racist ancestors back to where they came from.

I think you're right and it's been like that for a long time yet look where we are. We need building trades more than ever and we're still dealing with what sounds like the same problems.

One of the jobs I did within the education sector was as a careers adviser in a senior high school in a working class area and this was roughly 2 decades ago. We knew then that Uni was not for everyone and encouraged kids to take a 'gap year' to try some different jobs, or go to TAFE and do a course related to their interest to see if they liked it and then use that to help them into uni, or do a traineeship to learn skills, get a taste for the working world, get to know themselves a bit better and get a break from the academic routine before making the decision to choose a particular course at uni or elsewhere (amongst other pathways). It wasn't unusual for kids straight out of school to find uni overwhelming, or that they'd chosen a course they actually didn't like and had to drop out or find another course. Nowadays it must be even harder considering the cost of university study. Sometimes, it wasn't the kids that wanted the uni but the parents who wanted the kids to have what they had not been able to, plus status, etc. I'm surprised they're still saying that kids are being steered towards uni by schools. There are so many choices. I wonder if the system's worse than it was.

I think the problems with kids and trades is that, as FE mentions in the other comment here, some kids are still not mature enough plus they get paid a pitiful amount, it takes years to get paid a decent wage and are often not treated well. So many times I've heard tradesmen say the usual thing of 'kids don't want to work these days' and that having an apprentice was a hassle. It sounds to me that neither the tradespeople nor the apprentices are getting the support they need.

Thank you for sharing your insights from inside the trades situation. Seems to me there's a lot of work to be done to clear up the murky parts.

So do I. We seem to have the country's priorities wrong. Chasing super expensive submarines, for example, while so many people are in need of a roof over their heads.

You'll have to shout 'Hey Frog' next time!

Keeping fingers crossed for them. I'm cross-posting the article to Aussie Enviro. I really liked finding out that

It will be some years before scientists know how many released frogs have survived to breed.

But the technique to find out is a very simple and noisy one.

"We're very lucky in that one of the characteristics of corroboree frogs is that they'll respond to a loud sound," Dr Hunter explained.

"So we essentially just walk around yelling out, 'Hey frog!' and if they're there they will yell back to us."

The male frogs are the ones that return the call in mating season, allowing scientists to then count the number of eggs in the male's nest and calculate an estimate for the female population.

Here's the Greens response to the Budget: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYIEYvq2a5M