Barf. Did you just finish reading Marx yesterday? Cringe

Really? Because I can think of a thousand direct implications and ways in which people are affected.

Usually when discussing a heated topic (politics, gun control-take your pick) and trying to discuss the facts of the matter in a neutral manner but the response comes back with every phrase super charged with morally loaded words. Examples of a conversation I had recently (emphasis mine):

sure as hell isn’t PANDERING! What the fuck is wrong with you??

Typical apologist tactic

PRETENDING to care about the brutal slaughter of tens of thousands of innocent civilians

deflecting to your conspiracy theory

shows that YOU don’t care enough about Palestinian lives

It's very pronounced on this site for some reason. I don't know why.

Yea, I agree. That's why I used the word discuss because when the debate-bro mindset kicks in you're definitely dealing with an angsty teenager (also the constant invocation of logical fallacies).

Me too. But in my view they are not fully developed adults and still have some emotional intelligence left to grow.

For me personally the first tell is when they are morally loading every statement in an argument and are unable to engage with a topic directly. Adults should be able to discuss or debate certain topics on the value of the arguments alone without feeling pressured to include a declarative virtue signal in every clause.

DAE AMERICA LES BAD???

Saying that the awful things he does by choice is actually necessary things that he doesn’t like doing and would stop if he could

Thank goodness it wasn't my argument.

the fact that presidents have the power to change longstanding foreign policy

correct. And my response was...? Let me restate it because maybe it wasn't clear:

What a president can do and what a president ought to do in changing policy are two different things and bringing up the fact that change was able to occur in a place with low stakes (cuba: very low stakes) is not equivalent to the policy change that needs to occur in Israel (very high stakes). It's not apples to apples, is it?

Also, at no point did I fucking defend Biden. I just called out your stupid analogy about Cuba. Seems like you just had all the insults ready to deploy and were never interested in the argument.

I'm not the one constantly loading every phrase with all the virtuous condemnation diarrhea because I can actually engage with arguments without attacking the character of the author.

Attack the idea-not the people.

no. its just you morally loading every statement so that you can grandstand. And you do it in almost every thread I've seen you in. Try, as an exercise, to sometime engage with someone's arguments (just one time) without invoking any pejorative or dramatic virtuous invocations. You might find a new world is waiting for you- a wold where dialog can flow and thoughts can be exchanged. I'll be waiting for you there when you're ready.

more vacuous shit:

stop pretending that everything that your Dear Leader actively chooses not to do

Giving up on your principles

being needlessly submissive

are you a highschooler? Because that would explain a lot....

here is an example of your empty rhetoric:

sure as hell isn’t PANDERING! What the fuck is wrong with you??

Typical apologist tactic

PRETENDING to care about the brutal slaughter of tens of thousands of innocent civilians

deflecting to your conspiracy theory

shows that YOU don’t care enough about Palestinian lives

give me a fucking break.

I want lefties to be politically effective, but right now all we care about is empty rhetoric. You're the prime example of that. Instead of being concerned with engaging and constructing good arguments, you spent half the time criticizing my motivations. Because that's all we are amounting right now is living up to the meme of 'hot' air and no substance. So we come with asinine statements like:

Biden should just pause Israel because Obama was able to reverse Cuba

and the moment someone points how stupid this is you went straight to

WHY YOU LOVE GENOCIDE??!????!!!

We gotta do better (and i don't care if this sounds like tone policing). I'm sick of the fake moral indignation. I want people to start thinking about being politically effective and actually changing the discourse towards what can be accomplished.

I'm a progressive leftie and care about genocide too but it's not a magic shield that suddenly grants all my arguments immunity from criticism and also imposes on me the justification to insult everyone that disagrees with me personally. That's just called being a dick.

Is it possible to have a conversation without morally loading every statement or are you here for the virtue signalling? I don't think I've attacked you personally in any of my posts, have I?

sure as hell isn’t PANDERING! What the fuck is wrong with you??

Typical apologist tactic

PRETENDING to care about the brutal slaughter of tens of thousands of innocent civilians

deflecting to your conspiracy theory

shows that YOU don’t care enough about Palestinian lives

I think it's time to close Lemmy for the day. Cheers.

I'm glad I'm not the only one. That account is truly bizarre (from the point of view of how they write and express themselves). I've engaged with them a few times and it's like a weird loop. I know it's a real person, but it feels like talking to a script or dialog tree because it always goes down the same 1-2 dialog paths

Just to circle back, because you keep side-stepping it: Cuba is not equivalent to Israel. In any form or manner. That's what started this conversation.

If you followed any of the left pundits, news outlets, and even social media (including Lemmy) before Oct 7 you would know that Joe was long dead in the water to this demographic. You can latch on to Israel/Palestine as a defining moment for this election but honestly if it wasn't for this, this group would have found something else to latch on to. Joe may very well lose this election, but it won't be because of the progressive left by any shot as demonstrated by who is actually showing up tot he polls (even if pivot states such as Mi with large muslim populations exist).

You're not addressing the central point of my claim and simply restating your initial statement: that the president can change policy

has the power to change bad policy

while ignoring the key difference between Cuba and Israel. They are completely dissimilar situations with vastly different implications. The progressive left --which cares so much about genocide suddenly (forget Yemen, Syria, where more people have died int he last 6 years by an order of 10 than the entire palestine-israel conflict in the last 100 years)-- made up their mind about Biden long before Oct 7. The only way for Joe to pander to their vote is by accomplishing miracles at this point and I think that ship has sailed a long time ago so I really doubt they are the key demographic that will cost him his election.

An embargo on a small island nation has nothing in common with a key strategic ally in the middle east. Why are we comparing these two? Are you for real now