What PC is like the "thinkpad" of PCs?
What PC is like the "thinkpad" of PCs?
Hello. Many of the older thinkpads were regarded as being peak for the ability to repair and easily see into them at both the hardware and software levels.
I was wondering, what PC, if any, is similar in this regard? Aside from building your own PC ofc. Any opinions are welcome. Thank you.
Idk, but I’ll tell you Dell and HP desktops are the opposite of the Thinkpad. Every part they can make proprietary, they do make proprietary.
- Case
- Motherboard
- Power Supply
- CPU Cooler
Cannot be upgraded or replaced with off the shelf parts.
If your system dies, you’re expected to just buy a new one and chuck the old one in the bin.
I haven't been in a Dell in a long time but I can confirm HP is still the WORST.
I can confirm HP is still the WORST.
Well, I haven't been in an HP in a long time, but them forcing proprietary ink in their printers or bricking it is enough for me to not buy their computers as well (laptops or desktops).
the opposite of the Thinkpad.
To be fair, everything about a Thinkpad is proprietary too. It's accepted because it's a laptop.
A lot of things, yes, but not everything.
This is from iFixit:
Lenovo ThinkPad T14 Gen 3 2022 PROS Most repairs are very straightforward and require only basic tools. The keyboard replacement procedure is best in class. CONS Partially soldered memory and I/O ports hinder certain repairs.It scores 7/10 on their repairability meter. Definitely not the best, but far from the worst.
I have had several used dell / hp motherboards, the only thing proprietary was that some were 12V only and needed a 6 usd adapter to work with regular atx psus.
And also the power button connector, you have to figure out which pins are the ones that turn the PC on.
You can absolutely repair with off the shelf parts, dell will sell you just about anything and will probably have it in stock for years, that's literally what they do. What they typically don't do is conform to consumer form factors/standards.
The Thinkpad
Just carefully read the manual for the model you're interested in. Switching out a keyboard on T14s Gen1 is hell, as an example.
Not really true any more. The build quality isn't as good as it used to be and the upgradability has suffered too.
While I agree, it's hard to find a cheap and reliable laptop that's not a thinkpad. The keyboards have suffered and some of the models are harder to repair. But they're still spill proof, tough, and have lots of ports. I don't regret my thinkpad t14 gen 3 purchase. I might get a thinkpad t14 gen 2 soon.
no fucking way chat is this real
Any PC you build yourself?
Yes.
Aside from building your own PC ofc.
Are you talking about a pre-built PC that has decent repairability? If so you'd really just want to avoid brands that use proprietary or irregular parts. For example Dell Optiplex computers can be bought cheap but they use their own power supply and some have smaller cases that might not fit most graphics gards.
Is there any reason you are posting this to a privacy community? Were you hoping for something that is Libre/Core boot compatible like some ThinkPads are?
I was looking for something that I'm confident doesn't spy at the hardware level.
I used Thinkpads as an example because after the early 2010 ones, they got those weird i7 (I believe) processors and we don't know much of what they do but some speculate they record keystrokes and phone data home.
What PC can you trust has good hardware in privacy? I don't want to buy a PC and run Linux, trying my best, and the thing spies at the hardware level.
They absolutely do not record keystrokes and phone that home. You’re talking about the Intel Management Engine, which is completely useless to almost everyone, but there’s no evidence that it spies on you. There have been security vulnerabilities found in it that could let someone else compromise your system (notably: only if you’ve provisioned Intel Standard Manageability), but there is practically zero chance that Intel is doing that or even selling that sort of capability.
How confident do you need to be? I don't think I've seen any convincing evidence of any firmware spying in PC components.
Well, except the NSA's Clipper chip, but I don't think that really ever got implemented.
Well you can find a list of Libreboot compatible hardware here. I feel like your biggest issue, especially if you are relying on a prebuilt Windows PC, is all the bloatware they come with on top of Windows itself.
Lenovo uses proprietary, closed source firmware. There's no way to know what it's doing.
Framework is the best option these days for upgrades and repairs
Aren't they really expensive? Sure if you have the money, but what do you recommend as a budget option?
Well ThinkPad back in the days weren't cheap either but then even a 2nd hand one could still last a while and one could still get them fixed.
I got my PC built for me by a local computer shop for $100. Worth it to me for the time it saved plus they did a 24 hour stress test on it to make sure all the components worked.
By PC do you mean a desktop? Guess any desktop you build yourself. Are there features you want like the best Linux support or something?
Are you looking for a laptop or a desktop machine?
Framework laptops seems kinda cool but they don't ship to me yet so I have no personal experience. https://frame.work/
Many computer stores offer to build your computer from parts for a fee, that would give you the custom PC without building yourself.Can recommend a framework as a laptop. It also allows you to just use the motherboard as a standalone machine. But it being laptop hardware and only having one m.2 slot might be a deterrent for OP.
This tread is full of random comments about framework, when the op clearly asked about PCs
I recommend NOT getting a PC in a fancy thin case. Had to cut a hole when upgrading.
A friend of mine once had fancy thin Fujitsu computer with all sorts of non-standard shenanigans. Upgrading anything other than the HDD (yes, it was many many years ago) and RAM was a complete nightmare. In the end, it was easier to sell the whole thing and spend to money + some extra on a better computer.
Honestly, any enterprise OEM will be similar, such as Dell or Lenovo. Yes, their mainboards are proprietary, but you can easily source them from legitimate parts vendors. That's why there are so many refurbished Optiplexes and ThinkCentres on Amazon. They're trivial to repair and most don't even require tools.
You cannot easily upgrade to a dedicated GPU unless replacing an existing unit, which is standard for laptops as well.
I see core 2 dou optiplex computers in offices to this day, they run pretty good for a computer that had Windows XP out of the box at one point.
Framework
Framework
System76. 3mdeb.com also sells corebooted Desktops which are using MSI motherboards, brobably well repairable too.
Lol how the most liked comments are literally anticomments
I don't have a recommendation but I can point you to Gamers Nexus YouTube channel / website and filter on prebuilts to see reviews.
Big names like Dell HP and Lenovo are bad for ability to repair/upgrade. Although I do love buying their old servers because there are so many cheap ones on eBay.
All respect to Steve, but in this regard he's wrong - the parts might be proprietary in a lot of regards, but these machines are repairable af, they're just not aimed at the average consumer. Local site support will rock up to your desk and stick a new display adapter in for some extra monitors or take them away and swap out broken parts and have the same PC on your desk next day. Big enterprises buy these machines precisely because they're repairable and upgradable and getting stock typically isn't an issue.
That only applies to a large corporation with contracts.
and upgradable
If it's not something that can go in a slot for Dell HP and Lenovo there is no upgrade. They aren't going to swap an upgraded CPU because Dell doesn't do official bios patches to upgrade old PC's to cpus that come out later. Nor can you get a new motherboard dropped in an old Dell/HP/Lenovo chassis because of the power supply requirements/changes.
Edit: I couldn't even put a modern GPU in my old Dell Xeon because the power supply didn't put out the watts. I had to find a weird Dell to ATX converter cable off of eBay and Dremel the Dell case a little so the regular ATX would fit.
The name is Gamers Nexus, not Corporate IT Nexus.
Tuxedo
Dell Optiplex... You can buy them used all over still. Find one with a decent processor and upgrade everything else. The fans are easy to find and replace. I've got a Linux based MCPC that's about a decade old that's still going strong. I've got one for my kids with Linux on it. I've bought several for elderly relatives and upgraded the ram and drive to ssd. They really just seem to go forever.
