2d ago

A distressing thought about Koumba and the hive...

The hive exist, or desire to please the survivors. However they want. Koumba has used this more than anyone else to his own advantage to live the life of a decadent, hedonistic and shallow playboy - roleplaying as James Bond and surrounding himself and having sex with women. Now, to me - this is very much - at the minimum - taking advantage of them. The women he's having sexual relations with are not who they were, and it is unlikely - even if the hive came to him and suggested it (as I suspect they did) - that the women before the joining would be remotely interested in doing this. They are not them. Who they were has been lobotomised, malformed and disappeared into the hive - segmented up into billions of bodies.

I've seen some people (not here, but elsewhere) suggest that this behaviour is okay because the hive is consenting. The women he's picking show enthusiastic and active consent. This to me is disgraceful, not just in the context of that - but also what could be the case if Koumba had different, darker interests.

Now the show will not address this (and rightfully so) - but it still seems true to me regardless of that. If Koumba was a pedophile, they would provide him with children he requested - and the children would provide active consent. Just like the women he picks now, they wouldn't be who they were. There is no concept of childhood or child innocence anymore. The hive literally can't say no unless it contradicts their survival or asks them to hurt others.

So to anyone who thinks the hive is a good thing (and some people actually do), or that Koumba is doing no wrong with what he's doing. This should be a point to consider.

28 comments

Didn't he specifically say that he does not have sexual relations with hive mind individuals ?
Like there was an episode in which he specifically got offended by Carol insinuating it.
- He got offended on the insinuation that he was breaking consent. It's pretty clear he's been having sex and that he genuinely thinks the hive consents.
- I don't recall that. He seemed a bit upset about her attacking him over it, how she viewed him because of it.
  But episode 6 had him literally in a sauna surrounded by 5 naked women. Come on.
If the moral value of consent is about ensuring bodily and social autonomy for individuals, that's kind of already entirely out the window in this situation to the point where it doesn't seem like sex could meaningfully make it worse. What he's doing is a violation of norms and is creepy, but it doesn't seem like something that could cause actual harm. That's in contrast with Carol's interactions with the hive, which are all much more sympathetic, but did cause harm in various ways.
I've seen some people (not here, but elsewhere) suggest that this behaviour is okay because the hive is consenting. The women he's picking show enthusiastic and active consent.
That's the big thing, too. The hive goes beyond any reasonable limit to accommodate the uninfected. We see this when Carol tests them to see if they'd give her access to a nuke, and the answer is yes. They'd destroy the world just to make her happy.
To me at least, taking advantage of people who can only consent is no different from people who cannot consent. There's no choice or agency in the matter. It's still rape if the other person (or amalgamation of people, I guess) is in a position where they can't say no.
- people who can only consent
  that's not striclty true. they do defend themselves from Carol after being hurt by her a few times, so they clearly have some limits.
  
  When did they defend themselves? All they've done is avoid direct contact.
Also highlights that the hive could simply be a weapon used as an opening salvo. A first strike, by an alien species.
They send a repeating code to a planet that converts virtually the entire population into extreme pacifism. And it makes them utterly complaint?
Could be they were worried humanity would become a threat to them eventually so figured out a way to eliminate the threat, and/or they've cleared a wide open path to taking over Earth at their time of choosing.
One way or another, as a hive, Humanity isn't a problem like it would be with individuality.
- That’s been my suspicion, especially with the 10 year revelation. Seems to me to be nothing more than a genocide method really.
  
  Yes this was also my first thought. Prime the planet for easy conquest.
- They send a repeating code to a planet that converts virtually the entire population into extreme pacifism. And it makes them utterly complaint?
  why not go the much more simple route and kill them all with a deadly virus?
  
  Lots of imaginative reasons:
  Firstly a realistic one, 100% mortality in a virus designed to kill is actually really difficult. Whereas a spreader with a near 0 mortality has the chance to actually spread. (The game Plague INC. does this well.)
  The population is (relatively) intact, and they could have "uses" for said population after the fact. (Slaves, food, experiments, etc etc etc.)
  The aliens that spread it could themselves be hive, and they themselves could have been targeted by yet another species, and spreading it as part of their newfound need to procreate as a hive. It may not have originated where the signal was sent from.
Zosia specifically said "we can't really protect you (Carol) from each other" I think the season will end with one of them trying to kill the other or mass destruction or something.
- The guy in Paraguay is the wild card in this as well. Couple that with the fact that all of the other survivors except Carol and he are part of an in-group, there's definitely going to be some antagonism.
  They set Laxmi up as a very early foil for Carol, and are definitely keeping her occasionally present so that we don't forget about her for a reason. I can imagine Carol potentially doing something else that affects the infected in a bad way, and if something were to actually happen to her son, I feel like she'd be out for blood.
  I also expect some of the survivor group to dwindle over time, as there were members who were not only happy with the status quo, but actively wanted to join up with their loved ones (Kusimayu, for instance), who would probably acquiesce to the stem cell extraction needed to infect them.
  That, and the hivemind is definitely still going to be looking into other, less invasive approaches to infect the remaining few who don't consent (maybe a spit swab, would definitely place Diabate at greater risk).
  
  Carol froze her eggs so people are theorizing the hive will get her stem cells that way
  
  I also expect some of the survivor group to dwindle over time, as there were members who were not only happy with the status quo, but actively wanted to join up with their loved ones (Kusimayu, for instance), who would probably acquiesce to the stem cell extraction needed to infect them.
  I wonder if she would now given she knows they're going to starve within 10 years.
My hatred of hive minds grows! Soon everyone will see the inherent evil!
I might have played too much Mutants and Masterminds with a dm that loved using hive mind as villains!
In theory they aren't individuals anymore, they are appendages. So there would be no issue with consent the same way you decide consent for your hand or mouth. In a sense your mouth consents because it is part of the you making that decision.
Except... If there were any chance your hand could separate from you and become an individual in the future it'd be immoral to use it for sex now. And Carol is already very confident that it's possible to reverse the Joining. But even if she wasn't it was always a possibility. So having sex with any of them is incredibly wrong, which should be obvious to anybody on a gut level.
There is no concept of childhood or child innocence anymore.
I don't think we really know that fore sure. we have seen a few kids, but we don't know much about how they are handled by the collective.
- Why would they be handled differently beyond accounting for their smaller frame?
  
  who knows? introducing new life and new consciousnesses to the hive mind may need to ba handled in a specific way.

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