🐆 Right-wing trans woman finds out "gender-criticals" cannot be reasoned with

A good compromise is never just halfway between two policies. It requires understanding both perspectives and addressing their actual problems. So the compromise here would be trans rights for trans people, and free mental health care for anti-trans people.

The Trans Athlete debate also never seems to address the fact that it's all unfair from the get go. Being born to a poor family? Being born with a birth defect? Being born into an unsupportive family/community? Being born at the wrong time of year?
It also shouldn't matter how well someone does in sports. No athlete is using their skills in the work place and students shouldn't need athletics scholarships to pay for school. It should just be for fun with nothing on the line.
- In the real world, it doesn't even cause a real fairness issue. The Olympics started allowing trans competitors in the 90s, but there's never been a trans medal winner. If there was a real advantage, then you'd expect the best person at some sports in some counties to be trans, so there to be trans athletes competing, and their advantage to put them on the podium. You'd also potentially expect some countries to pad their team with trans people to get more medals. This hasn't happened.
- The trans athlete debate was a solved problem before the right wing learned about it. Let the professional authority body of whatever sport, in collaboration with relevant medical professionals, determine what hormone levels or transition progress is qualifying or unqualifying in each individual sport in a case by case basis. Because we tried this before, with genetic testing of Olympic female athletes and enough turned out intersex or androgyn disordered that they stopped doing it.

This is why advocating for "finding middle ground", or centrism, or this repackaged warmed over Abundance crap is so toxic.

You can't match these people half way. you have to beat them

Most arguments have a middle ground, but its a case by case basis. In this case the sides are:
let a marginalized group experience a little joy and feel comfortable in their bodies
refuse to accept that a middle school understanding of gender and biology might not be totally correct.
Meeting in the middle here is how you get second class citizens.
Beat them with rods is the only method.
(Not sarcasm)
Political centrism works well in a staunch democracy with a certain Overton window. As soon as these Alt-Righters have influence in a country, it doesn't work anymore.

Here is what you should do, Brianna:

Delete your twitter and never post about trans issues again. When you have been so consistently wrong about about something for such a long time, it is the best thing for everyone to simply accept that you shouldn't be part of the conversation anymore rather than trying to claw your way back into it.

(I know she isn't actually reading.)

once again ignoring entirely that trans masc people exist and we are impacted by the bullshit she spouts as well. what impacts one of us affects all of us, and I am not your fucking sister.

Transmascs aren't part of her personal experience. That makes sense to me. Also they are not the primary enemy of the Anti-Trans people.
- Also they are not the primary enemy of the Anti-Trans people.
  In the same way that lesbians weren't the "primary enemy" of Anti-Gay people. They ate shit all the same.

Wu is just the latest poster child for Reactionary Uncle Tom washouts. There's internet graveyards full of would-be pundits and ex-liberal turncoats who realized far too late that The Log Cabin Republicans and Blacks for Trump weren't going to protect them when fascists came knocking.

The thing you need to recognize about Wu - more than anything else - is that she comes from money. Look at my Porsche collection money. She's reactionary because that's where she eats. And pivoting her identity as a Trans Woman into an income stream as a reactionary poster is just the path failkids of the GenZ+ generations are trained into.

Brianna Wu is a product of her material conditions. In a better world, she wouldn't be able to horde wealth at her neighbors' expense. And she wouldn't have an economic incentive to fuck over her Trans peers in hopes of maintaining her precarious position among the wealthy elites.

NGL I thought this was a memepost; I never expected even a crumb of self reflection from that hack.

It’s sad she’s so close but still on ‘I want a middle ground on these issues’ really? Like…. She is okay with a little disrespect? A little discrimination?

Just a little second class citizen, as a treat.
Taking the middle ground with Nazis is saying you want the holocaust to happen but only three million jews should die.
She is desperate for a place that she can be considered "one of the good ones" with the implicit idea of "there are bad ones and they deserve to be treated worse than the good ones". She doesn't understand that the world builds rules on foundational ideas that are just straw men dressed in stereotypes - no one bothers with distinction.
- What’s more, if she would just embrace who she is, reject the bigots, and joins the lgbt community…. She will find people who will treat her well. And maybe together maybe we can build a better world…..
just like Jenner wants, a little here and there. still not palatable to magats though.

"I thought if I let the leopards eat a little of my face they wouldn't take it all."

First off, Brianna Wu is not my sister or comrade, so she can write that down.

Goldwater was absolute dogwater but he was right about republicans in 1981…

“On religious issues there can be little or no compromise. There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs."

"Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them."

Genuinely surprised this was not in Leopards Ate My Face

Feel free to share it there lol. I did consider posting it there, as you might have guessed from my leopard emoji.

What The hell are extreme Position on "trans people" that come from trans people themselves? Such extreme stuff like "just let everyone life the way they want and dont be fucking dick?"

I seriously have no fucking clue what she could mean that might be somewhat controversial. The only thing I could think of is stuff like "chop everyone's dick off" but that's more like extreme feminism and not just "extreme trans".

I think that people like to imagine this opposite dangerous "extreme" to validate that they can have the right to hold their problematic values. But that other extreme is basically a boogeyman. I hear from frienda and family on every subject "oh but we should be careful to not go too far in the other extreme". As if it was a real threat. Not only because we are so closer to right wing extremism at the moment but also because how can caring about other people can be "too extreme".

"The problem is, they are getting crazier and crazier."

They're not, they just don't feel the need to hide those parts of their goals any more, and you should have listened to us when we warned you about those goals.

And you should be listening to us now about their future goals.

They kinda are. Not at the fringes, there used to be targeted outing campaigns in the hopes of getting trans people fired or killed back in the day, but what was once extreme personal bigotry has become a pipeline and is increasingly legitimized by mainstream right wing politics. If you ask the average bush era republican if the medical establishment should be forced to institutionalize trans people, they'd reply with a slur for sure but they'd not support overriding medical institutions.

Fuck the middleground.

"You know, I'm starting to think these ethnicity-critical Nazis can't be reasoned with."

"I am starting to feel like these face-eating leopards I allied with are eyeing my face with increasing hunger."

Ngl, she is my goat though. like she just fully came to a reasoned decision, she'll be one of us soon.

Even after all of that, she still doesn't get it:

I think many of our most extreme ideas are bad. But theirs are worse.

The problem is that "our" (using quotes as I'm only progressive, not LGBTQ+) most extreme ideas are only held by a minority of progressive people, and meanwhile the things she thinks are their "most extreme ideas" are the ones that she saw personally, while interacting with people who don't mind interacting with a trans-woman. Those aren't their "most extreme ideas." They're their mainstream ideas.

She's comparing our most extreme ideas against their mainstream ideas.

I would love to know what those extreme left ideas that are bad are. Like 99% of progressive ideas boil down to "stop treating other people like shit."
I'm not sure who she's referring to when she says our there but whoever it is would be insane to invite her in with that take
- Also, she doesn't say what our most extreme ideas are. The most extreme idea she mentions is allowing trans-women to compete in women's sports. But I think that's probably a mainstream belief, and also the one that is best supported by science.
  (Meanwhile, the most extreme idea of theirs that she mentions is that trans-women should face non-stop violent rape if they go to prison.)

The problem with compromising for a “middle ground” is that, when the right decide to re-litigate the issue (if they ever stop litigating to begin with), your starting position is now that middle ground. Compromising for a middle ground simply moves the Overton window to the right.

In a negotiation its important to ask for more than you want. Compromise is what you reach during negotiations. If you start your negotiations from a pre-compromised position, you're just ceding ground to the other side.

Support the extremists. Support those who go too far and ask too much, as that's the only way to reach a fair and reasonable compromise.

Congrats, you have a better grasp of negotiation than a 6-figure-salary consultant contracted to the DNC.
- Oh, they ask for more than they want.

Is Brianna wu grifting to the left because she realizes there isn't a place for her on the right anymore? I'm a bit too cynical to believe this is legitimate since the right has been like this for quite a while. Just with the trump admin the center right position on the trans movement is not a profitable option for pundits anymore

If this truly is a come to Jesus moment, I'll believe it if she can back it up over time

I think a lot of the pickme's out there are like the rats on a doomed ship. They are sensing the coming shift before anyone else because they have less to lose and more to gain from becoming early adopters of the new "I was fooled" narrative that is going to absolutely sweep the right after Trump finally keels over.
There will be no successor, at least not of equal power and leadership who can hold Trump's infinity stone of stupidity, his base of fanatical loyalists who cling to his fetid authenticity like ticks on the back of a deer with spongiform encephalitis.
So when the pendulum of social discourse swings the other way, it will be like magic... every single Trump die-hard and zionist riding on the fact that their positions can hide behind the far worse things going on, will have up and just disappeared like farts in the wind. It will be a miracle, it will be like every nazi and trump sycophant just evaporated back into the shadows, and the grifters will have to suddenly race back into the overton window to capitalize on this temporary change in wind direction.
- I hope you’re right!
My attitude after the last election is trust no republican, they'll go back the second they can while crying to the left when they're being mistreated by their own.

I don’t think she’s right wing. Maybe in the same way that I jokingly call people right wing when they’re wrong, but I don’t think she’s actually traitor lunatic.

Have you seen her views on the Gaza genocide? She's a straight up fascist

For those who are not familiar with Brianna Wu: She has tried to be a left-wing grifter, before she discovered that it got her nowhere and thus decided to be a right-wing grifter instead. She tried to the right-wing's "good trans woman", agreeing with everything they said, until the above message. And yeah, she is already trying to spin this yet again...

And if you think that all of that is rather weird, she is also the creator of this masterpiece.

Cyborg Martin Luther King Jr. being attacked by scantily clad KKK women
Had to read that a couple of times for it to sink in.
what the hell was that last image

Not my sister.

Yeah, I have been so dissappointed after her turn in the past few years. Like WTF was she even thinking was going to happen. These assholes are not ever going to be anything but assholes.

Me over here with actually somewhat radical positions.

All HRT should be available OTC. (Yes, including T.)

A parent denying a child access to puberty blockers should be required to pay reparations if the child continues to identify as trans into adulthood.

Require unisex bathrooms for any business larger than a bananna stand.

I'm going to push back on OTC HRT because of the health risks. Supraphysiologic estrogen and testosterone can both have lethal side effects, so correct dosing and monitoring for health complications are essential components of trans healthcare.
- Both are already OTC in most of the world, specifically most developing countries.
  More importantly, you are applying an insane and bad-faith standard when assessing medication. ANY medication can have lethal side effects. Down a bottle full of Tylenol and you'll condemn yourself to a slow agonizing death of liver failure. Yet you can buy that shit at gas stations.
  You answered the wrong question. You asked, "can HRT be dangerous?" Any rational person trying to form an unbiased opinion about it would ask, "is HRT of comparable risk to existing OTC medications?"
- You can get lethal effects from nicotine, alcohol, bleach, ammonia, and many, many combinations of chemicals that are available with, at most, age verification.
  I'm all for people educating themselves as much as they want, from whatever sources they trust, but bodily autonomy DEMANDS someone be able to direct their own medication, including gender affirming medication. Doctor-as-gatekeeper is, IMO, not as good a model as Doctor-as-confidant-and-educator.
- DIY saved my life. I purchased bloodtests and monitored my own treatment. But it would have been a lot safer had I not needed to order estrogen online from a foreign supplier.
I don't believe parents should be able to make any permanent decisions about a child's body.
This includes hormones, tattoos, genital mutilation of any kind, plastic surgery, piercings.
Children cannot provide consent for anything.
- Unfortunately doing nothing is still a choice. And things aren't better just because they are natural.
  It is morally abominable to believe that it is better for 100 trans kids to go through the Hell on Earth of the wrong puberty than for one cis kid to mistakenly go on puberty blockers or HRT. It shows that you fundamentally believe the life of 1 cis person to be worth the lives of 100 trans people. You do not believe in the equal moral value of every human life. You fundamentally, in your heart of hearts, believe trans people to be subhuman, because you do not place the value of their pain anywhere near that of cis people.
- Good thing puberty blockers are reversible.
  But you don't actually care about that do you? You'll just move the goalposts.
- I agree parents should not force kids to have piercings. However trans health is a healthcare issue, like other health conditions. There is a problem that is causing suffering. In healthcare, we typically rely on parents as guardians to give legal consent, but kids also have to give their "assent" which carries crucial moral weight in the situation. While kids might not have the capacity to give fully informed consent, they can give assent based on their best understanding.
  We apply this to things like cancer treatment, corrective plastic surgery, counselling, and mental health medication for kids. Some of these can be even more permanent and life-altering than hormone blockers for kids (we don't allow bottom surgery for kids).
  This is why transcare, like most healthcare for kids, should involve a team of healthcare professionals, guardians, and crucially the child themselves in patient-centered decision-making.
  Do bad decisions happen? Yes. Are there misguided professionals, guardians, and kid patients? Yes. But this kind of care as standard is far better than parents deciding, or kids being left alone to figure it out themselves, or worse, policy-makers, who don't give a shit about evidence-based healthcare, deciding no trans kids get care. That's right, banning transcare is also making a decision for people with the consequence that trans kids continue to experience profound suffering without care.
- Do you feel the same about all life saving medicine as you do about trans health care?
  Sorry kid, we can't remove your appendix. Kids can't give consent and I can't give it as your parent. So, I guess you'll die.
- I don't believe parents should be able to make any permanent decisions about a child's body. This includes hormones, tattoos, genital mutilation of any kind, plastic surgery, piercings.
  You're right - which is why puberty blockers should be required by law for all children until they're 18 and can decide for themselves which puberty is right for them.
- Children don't consent to being brought into existence and yet we constantly do so. They can't consent, as one reply pointed out, to medical care either.
  Children can't consent to being refused anything that they ask for either.
  And even if the denial is on the basis of "their own good" they'll grow to rightfully resent being denied things if it has a significant impact on them into adulthood and rightfully fucking hate their parents for it. Gender transitioning is one such thing.
  Children are not ours to own and control and we owe them for dragging them into existence to critically think about their long term well being not just blindly applying some truism to every decision you make about their lives under your care.

i like how she’s still worried about "our extreme ideas"

what extreme ideas??? that trans women should compete in women’s sports??? the extreme idea that trans women are women???

i’d say my most extreme idea is that trans kids should be able to start HRT when they (and their cis peers) start puberty. and that’s only an extreme idea if you believe that trans kids are less deserving of a normal puberty than cis kids.

We don't want compromise with the far-right. We want FULL POLITICAL POWER 💪🏼

Nah I don't think we need full political power. I'd settle not giving it to anyone on the right at the moment. Lets not have any more societal backsliding at least.

You don't move the Overton window in the direction you want by preemptively moderating yourself. You move it by taking a more extreme position perhaps even than you actually want, in order to normalize it.

Make the middle ground billionaires are humanely executed.

Importantly there is an immediate follow up tweet,

2/ I consider my business settled with all trans sisters. If anyone wants to reset things, unblock and move forward, I am happy to do that

I'm glad she was able to admit she was wrong, that's absolutely a step in the right direction, but it's just a step. I don't want to speak of behalf of "trans sisters", but I certainly wouldn't consider the matter closed. She's apologized, great, but there is A LOT more work to be done.

Well she was able to admit that she was probably wrong.

I feel like I'd rather die for having to much faith in humanity than too little. And on that metric, I can't help but think BriannaWu was doing something right approaching right-wing nutjobs the way she did.

But more importantly, I'd rather not die in either of the aforementioned ways. What she did was definitely done out of (perhaps admirable) naïveté. And she's clearly grown as a person from the experience.

All that said, I don't know that she's got the best positions on everything. She says she believes that "trans women don't belong in women's sports" and she wants a "middle ground on bathrooms", both of which seem... problematic (even if the right wing wasn't so maximalist and radical about things.) And that part makes me wonder if the rest of the tweet was made in good faith, honestly.

Even if it is, she needs to sit her ass down and talk to other trans people irl. Like, this is terminally ill online brainrot and it's internet famous brainrot. Ms Wu needs therapy, she needs to go to a day of remembrance ceremony, and she needs to delete Twitter.
She comes to us as a sister again, but she still ain't treating us as one. We don't call each other family because it's some quirky thing, we do it because our community is filled with people who lost our families over this, where people we know will be buried with the wrong name. So yeah, she's my sister, but I don't think she thinks of us as such and I think she's been very out of touch with us for a long time.
Naaaah, she was throwing around the Cass Review last I checked (a year ago). This wasn't a virtuous arbitration between two differently informed parties. She's always done reactionary politicking and shouted "lalala cant hear you" whenever forced to break bread with mainstream trans advocacy.
Cheers to her if she's opened her eyes a bit, but I'm not holding my breath.

It's easy to dunk on how wrong she used to be, Brianna absolutely and clearly was. But now that even she agrees, it's not super helpful to mock her about it.

There are a oodles of different social pressures to conform for trans women, I truly understand her motivation. Girl let her internalized transphobia take the wheel and went look for nonexistent middle ground. Especially early in transition it's alluring to be *one of the good ones" and get a very specific type of applause for it.

We need to recognize that Bri didn't have to admit her faults, glad she did, but even on far more trivial issues most folk struggle. I'm glad she got here, and I look forward to her being better advocate for our rights. But her past should only be as an example for others, not a crudgel to mock her previous bargaining.

Welcome Hon, glad to see ya. ♥️

She still says she believes in “middle ground” with violent, homicidal, totalitarian fascists. Despite everything, she still hasn’t realized that “middle ground” is a fallacy that rightists use as a trap to take everything from others.
“Meet me in the middle” says the unjust man. You take a step forward, they take a step back. “Meet me in the middle” says the unjust man.
She’s close, I think, but only when you admit that compromising with the unjust is ALWAYS perpetuating injustice can you be forgiven.
Brianna should go home and read, forever.
She was wrong. She remains wrong. The most help she can be to anyone is to butt the fuck out.
The trans movement in no wise needed a quisling to suck up to TERFs, and we aren't going to coddle her for getting what she was told she would.
This is not a matter of innocent ignorance. This was a matter of willfully ignoring all of the people telling you what would happen, complete with historical record.
- Absolutely agree that Brianna needs to log the fuck off, de-center herself as any sort of repetitive of the community and sort out her own internalized transphobia. She isn't even close off the hook.
  This is not a matter of innocent ignorance. This was a matter of willfully ignoring all of the people telling you what would happen, complete with historical record.
  100%. I agree completely. She ignored the broader trans community and perpetuated harm, all for selfish self-congratulatory reasons. But what I'm saying is that she recognized the futility and is starting to listen. This no "forgive and forget", but we can't condemn her for admitting she was wrong.
  I just don't want others with misguided bigoted talking points thinking that they are trapped in that echo chamber.
Sounds great IF she does agree. She's dropped this ball before. I agree with you, except very tentatively.
Can we still mock her for being a blood thirsty genocidal psycho?
I agree in large part, I think she needs to step away from the internet and discourse for a while and actually connect with trans people in real life. Hit up a support group and listen, go to day of remembrance and hang around for a while after just talking about life with people, stuff like that.
I haven't forgiven her yet, but she's still my sister, she just needs to get her shit together and stop hurting the family. And that includes learning that her middle ground is still gonna make us second class citizens (and it's easy to accept it for yourself, but when it's others you care about it's harder, it's why you need community).
I will however say, she's not fresh out, she was out when she was a major target of gamergate like a decade ago. Like idk how she didn't learn by watching Blaire White get used in the same way.

I honestly don't understand how you can be conservative LGBTQ+. You existence is progressive.

The world is not one-dimensional, USA.

Better late than never but bitch we ALL warned you

I have no sympathy whatsoever.

Fuck off and have the day you voted for.

I remember a long time ago someone told me “you can’t reason with crazy.” These people are living in a completely unrealistic universe and do not have their wits about them. You can call them evil or whatever, but even so, they should be getting help from a medical professional because whatever is going on with these people is completely toxic, unhealthy, and destructive, even for themselves. I’ve pretty much written off anyone who still supports this administration a couple of years ago, as any reasonable person has already abandoned Trump and anyone else he associates with.

The fact that this is dated Nov 1st... How the hell could it take you this long to figure it out??

Oh… I know… I’ll walk through the chainsaw robot cave… they are triggered by motion… they tear anything that moves to shreds… yeah, that’s where I’m going to walk…

Stop 👏🏼 arguing 👏🏼 about 👏🏼 trans 👏🏼 issues 👏🏼

She's right about one thing, it's a slope we can't gain any traction on right now, and the more time we spend on it, the more we slide backwards with both actual trans rights and voter opinion.

Every time someone attacks on trans rights just say "shut the hell up, who cares, look at the disaster of an economy we're all suffering in."

Not defending our lives is the losingest strategy of them all
Fuck that. Trans people are my friends. Transphobes can catch these hands.
What a stupid take
You seem to think that we only fight one battle at a time, which is not true

Uncle Tom transitioned to Aunty Tom.

that's a lib waking up. they get up to speed quick once they feel a little nudge.