double negative

If those kids could read, they'd be very upset

It's amazing, the amount of bullshit people say in order to deny the obvious.

Anti antifascist = fascist

I mean, that's like how Elon wants to call his new party, the America party. And most likely people who are registered to vote for the America party would be called Americans. And so then if you're against them what, you're against America? You hate all Americans?
Like yes, in reality the people who are against antifa are fascists. But that can't be determined from the name of it! The government has played this trick countless times, naming laws and bills the opposite of what they're really supposed to do. Like someone introduces a bill called the " children's online privacy protection" act, but really it's just some mass surveillance garbage and has nothing to do with protecting children. And then if you oppose the act, and someone says " oh so you don't want children to be safe online?!1!1!1" like, we all know that's a really horrible argument. Things can be named whatever they want to be named even if it has no underlying relation to the reality of what they stand for.
Again, at this particular moment in this particular situation, antifa still does really stand against fascism, and the government that hates antifa really does stand for fascism. So we happened to get lucky that the names line up with the reality underneath in this case, but that doesn't mean that that's a good line of reasoning in general.
Not even like it's a hard algebraic equation right? - either that person is lying or really need to save those braincells for breathing

I 100% agree for the meme, but just warning that this isn't really a strong argument. I'm going to straw man here, but: "I'm against the Protect the Children Act", "You're literally saying you're against protecting children." "No, I just disagree that the Act is actually about protecting children and is more about government surveillance and corporate control." In their heads, they've already prepared the argument.

Basically, by them seeing it as a unified organization that stands for more than just being opposed to fascism, they see it as a crafted doublethink instead of realizing they are the victims of a different doublethink, to butcher the use of the term. It's hard to cut through that.

Most people know better. It's completely bad faith arguing.
Being against the Patriot Act does not mean you're not a patriot. Being against Black Lives Matter does not mean you think black lives don't matter. Same can be said about Antifa's actions; plenty of reasons to oppose them that do not involve supporting facism.
Also, there's the common fallacy of composition / division. Being against the Civil Rights Act doesn't mean you support segregation. Being against the Big Beautiful Bill does not mean you're against child tax credits.
College educated people know better, but still leverage dishonesty for political points. It's tiring.
- Being against Black Lives Matter does not mean you think black lives don't matter.
  Are you sure about that?
Extremely blessed Lemmy moment of opening the comments to find the hot one is what you opened the comments to post yourself

Its all about branding

I thought it was all about Brandon.

Team Scheisse FA

deepl translation:

t's annoying to explain

Because it's actually quite simple

So listen carefully

Because I'll only say it once

If you're anti-antifa

you're fa

You can say what you want

But that's the truth

And I wish

I didn't have to constantly be against something

But how is that supposed to work with all these goddamn

Nazi pigs?

And if it annoys you to hear that, it's not my problem

It's your problem

It's not hard to understand

I could take care of beautiful things

We could take care of beautiful things

Instead, we have to take care of this scum

If you're anti-antifa

you're fa

You can say what you want

But that's the truth

And I wish

I didn't have to be against something all the time

But how is that supposed to work

With all the goddamn Nazi pigs?

How?

How is that supposed to work, please?

It is not correct. There is a movement in Germany that is called Anti-Deutscher (anti German) they refuse to call themselves Germans and refuse identify themselves as such. As you all can think there are many people that doesn't like them (main reason being, that they are toxic but that is besides the point) I'd also call myself anti-anti-Deutscher, only that doesn't make me German. You can extend this example, just because you do tolerate something doesn't make you part of it.
That said it is not a secret that Maga is a fascist group. I say it based on their own slogans. I don't know if they are even deny it.
- The lyrics are not about Antideutsche (or anti-X in general) though. They are specifically about anti-antifascists.
- Tolerance of hatred is endorsement of hatred, that's what the paradox of tolerance is all about. "Germanism" doesn't inherently negatively impact anyone and is largely a matter of circumstance, whereas "fascism" is an objectively evil ideology one must continually choose to follow. Tolerance of Germanism doesn't hurt anyone, tolerance of fascism hurts everyone. Your argument is valid, being against a protest movement doesn't necessarily make you a supporter of whatever the movement is protesting. But in the case of fascism, it absolutely does.
- They are not denying it they are side-stepping the question.
  They need the moral imperative for as long as they can because the word itself will detract many of the soft supporting liberals/normies.
  So they are anti antifa for now.
  Once the capture is complete and they have their night of the long knives, the mask will come off completely at that point and they will proudly call themselves what they are: Fascists.
Great poem, thank you.

Ok, listen up kids. The anti prefix is not a logical negation. So double anti is not the same as no anti. Let's give an example.

A gun is a device intended for self defense. So you can call it an anti-murder device. If you are anit-gun, therefore anti-anti-murder device, it does not mean you are pro murder. You may be anti-murder and still believe there are too many disadvantages to a gun.

Idk why I, a non-native speaker have to be explaining this.

Of course, anti-anti-facist are probably just facist. I am just saying double anti is not always the same as no anti, not that it is never the case.

EDIT: Since the example seems to be confusing people, let's give a different one. If I am anti-anti-LGBTQ, does that make me LGBTQ? Obviously not. Opposing hate does not change my gender or sexual orientation.

So you can call it an anti-murder device.
Yes, but you can also call it a murder device. So when you say "anti-gun" and follow your logic we don't know if you've meant you're anti-defense or anti-murder. The ambiguity exists because of how you framed your example by attaching an inconsistent purpose for the gun.
The same ambiguity does not exist for anti-fascist.
- The ambiguity can exist when people have defined "antifa" as a group that takes violent acts to oppose fascism. It could be interpreted as "Please don't shoot nazis in my streets, because I have to get to work".
  Still, I find the cartoon funny, and I have a better counter for any statement about antifa: "Name one."
- What you are saying just reinforces my point. Anti is not a strict negation like it is with not in logical statements. So a gun can be an anti-murder device in context of responsible legal owners and murder device in hands of criminals. There is no contradiction.
Your example does not support the point you're trying to make.
Gun = murder device. Gun <> murder. You can't just arbitrarily switch between the two concepts.
Anti-anti-murder device = pro-murder device. Double negative
- Gun = murder device.
  Exactly my point. Gun is a killing device. Which means it is a murder device when used to kill illegally and also anti-murder device when used in self defense to stop a murder. Both are true, because anti is not a negative, like logical not is. That is why you can't just cross them out without considering what exactly they mean in the given context.
"Listen up kids" is always followed by some contentious, condescending bullshit.

They know

I went to a parade earlier that was celebrating anti fascism. They even had some spitfires flying over.

You actually don’t think Trump’s actions are fascist?
- I don't think that's the point. Whether or not they think Trump's actions are fascist, which I assume they do because they are on Lemmy, doesn't matter.
  The point is that the name of an organization (or group) does not exactly have to match its intentions and actions. If I made an anti-Nazi party with all the ideology and policy of the Nazis, and committed horrible crimes, then I could call out my opposition and say that they were Nazis for opposing my anti-Nazi party.
  I do think Trump is a fascist, but not because he is "anti-anti-fascist".
  The meme is entertaining, though
Should organize under the name Anti-pedo, then just go and commit a bunch of violence. If people complain, they must be pedophiles.
Can yall not see this is exactly why they chose that name?
Who is “they?”
Are “they” in this thread with us right now?
And while I don’t doubt that somebody somewhere does throw around the word “fascist” as a pejorative, it is generally used correctly when someone checks all the boxes. Right now, much of the US and a growing number around the globe, check all of the boxes.

As funny as it is, and as much as your elementary school English teacher enforced it, this isn't actually how the English language works. If I'm anti-anti-abortion that doesn't mean I'm trying to make people have abortions, for example. It could mean anywhere from being against a total ban to the furthest range of trying to force them in every case on everyone.

(Trump is a fascist though.)

Your example still means you would be kinda pro abortion. At least for the option to be there. Some would even say "an enabler for abortion".
If someone would be the same level for fascists, I would still call them fascist. Others would maybe just call them a fascist enabler, but not being fascist, but still being pro fascist, is still very evil IMO.
- There are no enablers/collaborators; there are just fascists.
Well being anti Antifa could mean you are on one end okay eith fascism or the other end support fascism 100%.
In both cases you are a fascist IMO
- Eh, no. Not really. You could be just against people who are actively against fascism. You don't need an opinion on it. You should have an opinion on it, but it isn't required.
  For the abortion example, letting people have a choice is within the range of possibility for anti-anti-abortion. The same here. The problem is Fascists don't want to let people have a choice, so you're fucked up you allow them to make the decisions.

what if your anti-anti-anti-antifascist.

Muskmode enabled!

Well obviously. The fact that antifa would expose fascism merely by donning the name is the point of the whole damn thing.

I agree with the message but the argument is weak, plus drawing Trump with a neck?

I also agree with it, he is fascist. But yeah, the right don't view "Antifa" as encompassing everyone who is against fascism. Just like how, say, banning Mothers Against Drunk Driving would not ban mothers against against drunk driving. Of course, one of those is an actual legal entity, the other is a vague movement.

Trump fanatics and MAGA dipshits won't see the correlation.

They think that antifa is some group of people doing things. Organized and with a plan or something. It's not.

Antifa is about as organized as anonymous. Which is to say, it's not organized at all. There's only an anonymous/antifa action taken when enough of the people that believe in either concept rally around a single thought. When it hits critical mass, shit happens. Until then, it's just a scattered group of randoms that don't know eachother, and happen to share a specific viewpoint.