Three action system: every "activity" (strike, stride, cast a spell, etc) has an action cost. On a standard turn, your character gets 3 actions to spend on those various activities. This obviates the need for DnD's rules about spending a whole turn running since you can just spend multiple actions striding.
Keyword system: PF2e leans more onto standardized keywords and uses them appropriately. Everything (all actions, weapons, items, even statuses) has a set of traits that (usually) briefly explains how the thing acts. It allows for standardized templates for interactions between different elements of the game. This takes a HUGE burden off the GM during game play, esp for modules that weren't written to think about each other. All the examples I can think of would take several pages to explain, but you can look up some things on Easy Tools and see their traits.
Bonus thing I love: all the rules are openly published, leading to TONS of extra tools that just make the game easier to run. (That said you should buy a set of books to help the publishers after you've been converted).
As a GM i love the balance. Martial-caster balance is overall pretty good. Player options across the board seem fairly well balanced. And as a GM i love that the creatures/hazards are all balanced as well. They have this whole set of easy to use guidelines on how to build an encounter based on the party level and how challenging you want it to be. I don't have to keep throwing monsters at the party to see what sticks, i can instead craft an encounter in a minute and know pretty darn well how tough it will be for the party. I cannot express to you how amazing that feels to take the guess work out of things. It makes my party going off the rails easier to manage because i can create fun and challenging encounters on the fly
I think one of the biggest things, besides not being owned by WOTC, is that it doesn't have a million exceptions you have to remember.
D&D5e: Want to use your bonus action? Cool. Is it for a spell? Have you cast a spell this round? Is it a spell that's allowed to be cast even if you've cast a spell?
Pathfinder2e: Do you have enough actions to perform an action? OK, do it.
i do have a group that we've been playing since covid lockdowns via roll20 and later foundry and Unfortunately i don't have blocks of time for more games (i wish i did!). My comment was mostly just aimed at that all local my friends play d&d and don't want to switch.
But if you're looking to play pathfinder2e online there are communities like the pathfinder2e subreddit which has an active discord community. Foundryvtt has a very active pathfinder2e community (but LFG is done through main foundry discord).
And if you're not opposed to Organized Play (paizos version of adventurers league) then they have in store and online one-shots you can join. It's actually how i met my group but we branched off and did our own thing.
I haven't really played PF2e, but from reading it I don't really love that it does the "numbers go way up" thing. I did 3e and I didn't like the "I rolled a 4, but I have a +47 on my check" thing. I'm told PF2e has a "without level bonus" mode, but I don't know if anyone plays it.
To me it feels meaningful in a way that the ludicrous numbers never did in previous versions. The expanded crit system makes degrees of success matter, and they do a great job of making you feel heroic; especially when you go back and fight underleveled enemies and crit on every attack. (Or, alternatively, when you roll a natural 20 and it just upgrades your crit fail to a regular fail. That's when you know it's time to run.)
I think the level scaling fits Golarion, since "becoming a god" is a semi realistic goal for someone to set for themselves :P
But people who want to play in grittier settings do use the proficiency without level rules, and from what I've seen all the major third party tools support that option. As a gm, It can be hard to balance for though! The +level to everything mostly serves to give your level 10 cleric a fighting chance on their stealth checks, and without that boost there are some actions some characters just can't perform.
Hey everyone has their preferences but these posts gatekeeping what's called an ttrpg always confuse me. And I'm even more confused by choosing to call it a video game. But you do you. Pf1 wasn't a fun system to me 🤷♂️
So first of all, if you like D&D 3.x or Pathfinder 1e, I'm glad! It's a fun system. I have many great memories of amazing campaigns in that system, and I think it's most important that you play the game you like. But I've been hearing this "video game" thing for half a decade now, which means I've got a whole big rant prepared. I'm...I'm sorry.
Ok. So. Yes, 5e filed off all of the stuff that was interesting, the big numbers that make people feel powerful, the stuff that made characters unique, etc. in its pursuit of making D&D like a video game. But Pathfinder went the opposite direction.
You can make 238,140 mechanically distinct level two characters based on ancestry, class, and archetype alone (that's not a random guess, I did the math); and while they won't all have the same power level, they will all likely be able to contribute meaningfully. And that's not even counting all the class-specific choices and options, or the other feats you could take. Paizo is six years into PF2e right now, and even though they had to waste a bunch of time dealing with WotC's OGL nonsense, they're up to nearly a quarter million different combinations; but 3.x didn't get anywhere near that level of meaningful customization until Pathfinder debuted archetypes in the APG in 2010---a full decade after 3.0 came out.
The 3-action economy is so much easier to play and explain than "wait, what's a 'swift' action again?" (I've taught a seven-year-old how to play successfully), but it doesn't feel like a video game like 5e does because there are actual, meaningful choices you can make with each of your three actions. While 5e (and 3.x before it) often devolves into "conga line of death" (surround the bad guy for flanking, whomp him with your biggest weapon twice per turn, don't move because he'll AOO you into powder), you can do essentially whatever you want with each of your three actions and make a difference.
Plus, where 5e aimed at making things even more same-y with "bounded accuracy," PF2e leaned into crits so hard that they had to lean into crit fails, too, in order to balance them. You can crit succeed and fail at skill checks, and the APs have rules for what happens when you do. Some weapons are built around crits, and they're not a 1-in-20 chance anymore. You can do them quite often with the right build.
As far as setting, the Forgotten Realms were probably interesting back when Greenwood came up with them, but putting a billion authors into the world has made it into the same bland, boring, Wal-Mart-Brand-Middle-Earth that Greyhawk was; but Golarion has something like three different continents for every possible type of fantasy setting you might want (that is a random guess, and probably an exaggeration).
And with the addition of Starfinder to the system a few weeks ago, all of that gets doubled or more.
Plus, it's so much easier to run as a GM than the 3.x games were. I remember the first time I put a "hard" encounter together for PF2e. I looked at it and was like, "whoa, that can't be right, I'm gonna have a TPK!" So I nerfed the encounter, and the players stomped it in two rounds. When I built an encounter the next week using the rules as written, it was a fun and dynamic encounter that lasted the entire session. One character went down. Everyone used their consumables and resources. It worked perfectly. Ever since, I trust that the encounter math knows what it's talking about. When was the last time you were able to say that in 3.x?
Doesn't help that we've got metric tons of content in the old system.
A lot of the really good stuff has been updated for the new system, either officially or by the community.
Why retrofit what didn't really need fixing?
I mean...3.x was kind of janky. Yeah, it was better than AD&D, and yeah, it was awesome in its time, but it's based on a 25-year-old system. People know a lot more about game design now, and it shows. Pathfinder 1e did noble work trying to make everything fit together, but they deployed a lot of duct tape over the nine years they were essentially "in charge of" the d20 system. When the "Pathfinder Unchained" classes came out, and you could see the difference between a modern approach and an original approach at the same table, it was like night and day. Some tables even banned Unchained classes because they would outshine the PHB/CRB classes, even though their damage output was still balanced.
I don't think Pathfinder 2e is a perfect system. But it's definitely better than the 3.x rules. That thing did, in fact, need fixing.
Like I said, if you still like 3.x, I'm glad! Enjoy what you enjoy. I think it's most important that people play the game they like at their tables. But 2e didn't make it "video game-y."
Pf2e is a different system mechanically and setting wise than dnd 3.x, and this unfortunately got even worse with hasbro tried to flip the table on the OGL. That caused paizo to create their own irrevocable license and strip all ogl content from their future books now called pf2e remastered. I'm not sure your 3.x stuff would be of much use there without needing to convert things yourself.
But 3.x as i understand it was more closely aligned with pf1e. There might be some compatibility there but i never played 3.x or pf1 so I'm not sure
But... BUT.. hear me out.... all of the pf2e game rules, character options, and monster statblocks are available for free on archives of nethys, an official site so no high seas sailing.
Game setting info beyond some basic blurbs in those rulebooks are not published online for free, but those aren't needed if you want to homebrew your own setting. Prewritten adventures also aren't typically available for free, but a few are released from free rpgday . And they also have their version of adventuerers league (called pathfinder society) which you can get those adventures to run for free if you go through a participating game store (or convince a game store to participate).
All that is to say its pretty low risk to try it out.
And if you're open to spending some money the beginner box is exceptional-- uses real rules and introduces rules to the GM and player when necessary. Available physical box, digital download, or in virtual tabletops
3.x was not some perfect, untouchable version of the game rules. PF2e isn't either, but acting like 3.x is this finely-tuned specimen of the game is ludicrous. That game was janky.
If you like the game (and I did!), that's fine! If you like the jank (and I did not), that's also fine. But don't act like 2e isn't worth your consideration just because it's a different game. It sounds just as ridiculous as refusing to consider a SNES because you poured "all this money" into an NES. Just say "eh, I like what I've got, it's enough for me" and move on.
Not really, PF2E is its own system that is in the D20 family but no longer directly compatible with 3.X. However, since encounter balancing is easy, if you want to convert 3.X adventures to PF2E the work is pretty simple.
Is it still compatible with all the money I wasted on 3.x Hasbro D&D?
While technically the answer is "no", people who emphasize the difference don't apply the "Rule of Cool" as liberally as I did.
I re-used all kinds of D&D 3rd Edition resources while switching to Pathfinder.
Sure, we absolutely shouldn't just dogmatically use the numbers given in a 3E book with Pathfinder.
But I didn't find it terribly hard to whip up Pathfinder monster and NPC number adjustments based on my 3E source books, more or less on the fly.
Many numbers given are close enough. Most abilities are easy enough to convert in a way that is fun. The Challenge Rating isn't tuned as carefully, but i find the usual GM toolkit can address that. For example, throwing in a few extras baddies from over the hilldside can scale an encounter up, and awarding the players various story advantages "for good role playing" can scale an encounter's challenge down.
If my napkin translation went too badly, I threw "Rule of Cool" at it, and just made sure the players were still having fun.
I will say, I relegated 3E stuff to filler encounters, just as I do with anything else I homebrew.
I don't mind being on my GM toes for a quick encounter, or a short story arc. But I don't like having something poorly balanced have a recurring role in my campaigns.
All to say I have used 3E source books liberally in my Pathfinder campaigns, and I'm not sure any of my players have ever noticed.
First edition Pathfinder should be. Second edition is more like 5e, but actually thought out. I don't think it's natively compatible with D&D5e though.
GURPS Lite is available for free, and includes the basic rules on how to do things, combat, etc. It doesn't include the introductory "What is a GM?" stuff to save space; though that does show up in the Basic Set. You can extrapolate quite a lot from just what's in Lite - a lot of the stuff in even the Basic Set that's not in Lite is corner cases (how far can I jump? What can I shift or drag, instead of lifting?), clarifications (how long does it take me to dig a hole?)... and lots more skills and abilities!
Mook has some very basic combat examples worked through here
In a little different vein, Feral Sword Wielding Wizard has some fight scenes from movies he's gone through and labeled with GURPS combat maneuvers, so you can see how they work! (Just keep in mind this is with a bunch of optional rules!)
If you like Actual Play shows, the Film Reroll podcast plays exclusively in GURPS. They play a fairly light version of the rules, but still make custom mechanics for various settings that show how modular of a system it is.
The show takes the premise of a movie and plays it out as a roleplay campaign. My favorite is Friday the 13th: The Final Chapter, in which the GM tells the players they're playing an obscure teen romance from the 80s so that they wouldn't know they were in a horror movie. I probably wouldn't recommend that for a table, but the actors know to expect tricks and it works very well as entertainment.
I've come to the conclusion that 3.5e was the peak of TTRPG and frankly I've just decided I'm going to go back to that. It's not like there isn't plenty of 3.5e materials to use.
I like pathfinder(2e) more in every way except less people play it
What are some highlights that make you feel that way? I've never played.
Here's my list:
Two big things I love:
Bonus thing I love: all the rules are openly published, leading to TONS of extra tools that just make the game easier to run. (That said you should buy a set of books to help the publishers after you've been converted).
Not OP but the top 3 for me are
As a GM i love the balance. Martial-caster balance is overall pretty good. Player options across the board seem fairly well balanced. And as a GM i love that the creatures/hazards are all balanced as well. They have this whole set of easy to use guidelines on how to build an encounter based on the party level and how challenging you want it to be. I don't have to keep throwing monsters at the party to see what sticks, i can instead craft an encounter in a minute and know pretty darn well how tough it will be for the party. I cannot express to you how amazing that feels to take the guess work out of things. It makes my party going off the rails easier to manage because i can create fun and challenging encounters on the fly
3 action economy for me, I also like that the rules are much clearer and more balanced to more play styles.
I think one of the biggest things, besides not being owned by WOTC, is that it doesn't have a million exceptions you have to remember.
D&D5e: Want to use your bonus action? Cool. Is it for a spell? Have you cast a spell this round? Is it a spell that's allowed to be cast even if you've cast a spell?
Pathfinder2e: Do you have enough actions to perform an action? OK, do it.
I’ll play with you.
Seriously.
I haven’t before but I’d love to. Last dnd I played was 3.5. I won’t touch anything else, except pathfinder and other non-dnd games.
i do have a group that we've been playing since covid lockdowns via roll20 and later foundry and Unfortunately i don't have blocks of time for more games (i wish i did!). My comment was mostly just aimed at that all local my friends play d&d and don't want to switch.
But if you're looking to play pathfinder2e online there are communities like the pathfinder2e subreddit which has an active discord community. Foundryvtt has a very active pathfinder2e community (but LFG is done through main foundry discord).
And if you're not opposed to Organized Play (paizos version of adventurers league) then they have in store and online one-shots you can join. It's actually how i met my group but we branched off and did our own thing.
I'm looking to DM kingmaker on pf2e! Let me know if you're interested.
I haven't really played PF2e, but from reading it I don't really love that it does the "numbers go way up" thing. I did 3e and I didn't like the "I rolled a 4, but I have a +47 on my check" thing. I'm told PF2e has a "without level bonus" mode, but I don't know if anyone plays it.
To me it feels meaningful in a way that the ludicrous numbers never did in previous versions. The expanded crit system makes degrees of success matter, and they do a great job of making you feel heroic; especially when you go back and fight underleveled enemies and crit on every attack. (Or, alternatively, when you roll a natural 20 and it just upgrades your crit fail to a regular fail. That's when you know it's time to run.)
I think the level scaling fits Golarion, since "becoming a god" is a semi realistic goal for someone to set for themselves :P
But people who want to play in grittier settings do use the proficiency without level rules, and from what I've seen all the major third party tools support that option. As a gm, It can be hard to balance for though! The +level to everything mostly serves to give your level 10 cleric a fighting chance on their stealth checks, and without that boost there are some actions some characters just can't perform.
2e did the 5e thing of filing down a table top game to a video game.
Doesn't help that we've got metric tons of content in the old system. Why retrofit what didn't really need fixing? Just give me more APs.
Hey everyone has their preferences but these posts gatekeeping what's called an ttrpg always confuse me. And I'm even more confused by choosing to call it a video game. But you do you. Pf1 wasn't a fun system to me 🤷♂️
Eh? It absolutely did not do that thing.
So first of all, if you like D&D 3.x or Pathfinder 1e, I'm glad! It's a fun system. I have many great memories of amazing campaigns in that system, and I think it's most important that you play the game you like. But I've been hearing this "video game" thing for half a decade now, which means I've got a whole big rant prepared. I'm...I'm sorry.
Ok. So. Yes, 5e filed off all of the stuff that was interesting, the big numbers that make people feel powerful, the stuff that made characters unique, etc. in its pursuit of making D&D like a video game. But Pathfinder went the opposite direction.
And with the addition of Starfinder to the system a few weeks ago, all of that gets doubled or more.
Plus, it's so much easier to run as a GM than the 3.x games were. I remember the first time I put a "hard" encounter together for PF2e. I looked at it and was like, "whoa, that can't be right, I'm gonna have a TPK!" So I nerfed the encounter, and the players stomped it in two rounds. When I built an encounter the next week using the rules as written, it was a fun and dynamic encounter that lasted the entire session. One character went down. Everyone used their consumables and resources. It worked perfectly. Ever since, I trust that the encounter math knows what it's talking about. When was the last time you were able to say that in 3.x?
A lot of the really good stuff has been updated for the new system, either officially or by the community.
I mean...3.x was kind of janky. Yeah, it was better than AD&D, and yeah, it was awesome in its time, but it's based on a 25-year-old system. People know a lot more about game design now, and it shows. Pathfinder 1e did noble work trying to make everything fit together, but they deployed a lot of duct tape over the nine years they were essentially "in charge of" the d20 system. When the "Pathfinder Unchained" classes came out, and you could see the difference between a modern approach and an original approach at the same table, it was like night and day. Some tables even banned Unchained classes because they would outshine the PHB/CRB classes, even though their damage output was still balanced.
I don't think Pathfinder 2e is a perfect system. But it's definitely better than the 3.x rules. That thing did, in fact, need fixing.
They have! And they're great! You just have to play PF2e, or convert them to your system, in order to play them. Or you can play third-party adventures, which are still coming out for PF1e/3.x as recently as yesterday.
Like I said, if you still like 3.x, I'm glad! Enjoy what you enjoy. I think it's most important that people play the game they like at their tables. But 2e didn't make it "video game-y."
It's only a TTRPG if you can win it in character creation. Everything else is just sparkling video game.
Is it still compatible with all the money I wasted on 3.x Hasbro D&D?
Pf2e is a different system mechanically and setting wise than dnd 3.x, and this unfortunately got even worse with hasbro tried to flip the table on the OGL. That caused paizo to create their own irrevocable license and strip all ogl content from their future books now called pf2e remastered. I'm not sure your 3.x stuff would be of much use there without needing to convert things yourself.
But 3.x as i understand it was more closely aligned with pf1e. There might be some compatibility there but i never played 3.x or pf1 so I'm not sure
But... BUT.. hear me out.... all of the pf2e game rules, character options, and monster statblocks are available for free on archives of nethys, an official site so no high seas sailing.
Game setting info beyond some basic blurbs in those rulebooks are not published online for free, but those aren't needed if you want to homebrew your own setting. Prewritten adventures also aren't typically available for free, but a few are released from free rpgday . And they also have their version of adventuerers league (called pathfinder society) which you can get those adventures to run for free if you go through a participating game store (or convince a game store to participate).
All that is to say its pretty low risk to try it out.
And if you're open to spending some money the beginner box is exceptional-- uses real rules and introduces rules to the GM and player when necessary. Available physical box, digital download, or in virtual tabletops
No, but it is much improved and streamlined
3.x was not some perfect, untouchable version of the game rules. PF2e isn't either, but acting like 3.x is this finely-tuned specimen of the game is ludicrous. That game was janky.
If you like the game (and I did!), that's fine! If you like the jank (and I did not), that's also fine. But don't act like 2e isn't worth your consideration just because it's a different game. It sounds just as ridiculous as refusing to consider a SNES because you poured "all this money" into an NES. Just say "eh, I like what I've got, it's enough for me" and move on.
Not really, PF2E is its own system that is in the D20 family but no longer directly compatible with 3.X. However, since encounter balancing is easy, if you want to convert 3.X adventures to PF2E the work is pretty simple.
While technically the answer is "no", people who emphasize the difference don't apply the "Rule of Cool" as liberally as I did.
I re-used all kinds of D&D 3rd Edition resources while switching to Pathfinder.
Sure, we absolutely shouldn't just dogmatically use the numbers given in a 3E book with Pathfinder.
But I didn't find it terribly hard to whip up Pathfinder monster and NPC number adjustments based on my 3E source books, more or less on the fly.
Many numbers given are close enough. Most abilities are easy enough to convert in a way that is fun. The Challenge Rating isn't tuned as carefully, but i find the usual GM toolkit can address that. For example, throwing in a few extras baddies from over the hilldside can scale an encounter up, and awarding the players various story advantages "for good role playing" can scale an encounter's challenge down.
If my napkin translation went too badly, I threw "Rule of Cool" at it, and just made sure the players were still having fun.
I will say, I relegated 3E stuff to filler encounters, just as I do with anything else I homebrew.
I don't mind being on my GM toes for a quick encounter, or a short story arc. But I don't like having something poorly balanced have a recurring role in my campaigns.
All to say I have used 3E source books liberally in my Pathfinder campaigns, and I'm not sure any of my players have ever noticed.
First edition Pathfinder should be. Second edition is more like 5e, but actually thought out. I don't think it's natively compatible with D&D5e though.
No