Why must we be done this way?

I mean it kind of needs to be both. But it’s hard to find a compelling reason why kids need their smartphones fully accessible during class.

Schools should just be one huge faraday cage. Kids have to learn to focus and pay attention.
And they need to learn the curriculum
- I mean I’m not that extreme lmao that’s also a safety issue. Kids will be kids, they will not sit quietly all school day and be total lesson sponges lol
- Schools should be a battle royale, leave them on an island to battle and the last kid standing gets to go home.
- learn to focus and pay attention.
  Not all of us have the luxury of that ability
- Stupid.
Well, you can quickly search up some information. I don't remember what it was, but I remember that once in middle school teacher said something I wasn't quite sure about, but also I wouldn't ask if I wasn't more sure. So I looked it up, seeing that I was right, I asked if it rather wasn't meant to be that other thing, he checked too and indeed he was wrong.
Also, my mind often wanders off. And it may happen that I suddenly can't remember something. Could just be some word I could look up on my phone in less than a minute. Option B: Keep thinking about it till the rest of the class. I can't stop thinking about that until I either remember or find it.
Next, spine. I am currently in high school. Phones are allowed here. Any time. So, I utilized my scanner and digitized one 500 or so page book I couldn't find on the internet, and then used it as PDF instead of a physical book. It is less likely that I would forget my phone. I wish schools would have options for e-ink tablets instead of having to carry many heavy physical books. That used to be problem mostly in elementary school and middle school. Same goes for note taking.
Obviously, the last example can be easily solved by modernization.
Fast talking teachers. I can't write that fast. I mean, I can, but then I can't decipher my handwriting, which is already hard anyway. Voice recorder is a quick solution. Obviously, it is easier to look through notes than audio, but IT IS NOT MEANT TO BE A REPLACEMENT FOR NOTES, just a help.
But do take that with a pinch of salt. Especially in elementary school, I used to be one of those weird kids who greatly preferred being liked by the teacher over having friends. So even though I had a phone at the time, I never used it during classes because teachers disliked it.
But at least during breaks it should be allowed. Otherwise kids will find much more dangerous ways to entertain themselves.
- ... yes, my phoneless childhood was super dangerous. it's amazing i survived a couple of decades without one!
- If you want to teach kids how to look up information, you can create spaces for that. They don’t need unrestricted access to their smart phones to accomplish that throughout the day. Hell you can relax your policies as they grow up and show the maturity to handle having a smart phone in the classroom. If schools want to do that, I am all in favor of it. But they would have to start early and build a system, which is a lot to ask of already overworked educators.
- Option B: Keep thinking about it till the rest of the class. I can't stop thinking about that until I either remember or find it.
  Option C: Write it down.
- All this is spoken like an entitled bratty immature kid. (No offense, it's just your age and you'll grow out of it)
  There's a reason why you can get a ticket or be charged with distracted driving while you're on your phone and behind the wheel of a car. IT IS A DISTRACTION. FULL STOP.
  Stop lying to yourself and to us in the process.
Well, by their teenage years, why not all the reasons adults need smartphones fully accessible? Looking up information from authoritative sources? Emergency contact? Coordinating schedules for office hours?
Schools often simultaneously demand more from children than workplaces do adults, and give them less opportunity to excel.
I'm not saying work-inappropriate phone use should be accepted, but taking them away entirely is downright irresponsible. Just like schools who still demand students write on a notebook instead of using a laptop. Raise your hand if you had RSI-related issues for a decade or more after high school? We old people tend to forget how bad school used to be (and can be) for physical and mental health AND for learning.

"oh no i cannot play on my phone, how could school be so cruel"

I actually doubt that phones are the major reason for a post like this. There are many reasons that you could fill in that only happen to some schools but phones happen to be the only one that applies to nearly every school. For example, at my school, our lunches have been cut down to shit 15 minutes at most, and if you buy lunch, it's much less. We usually have them call 5 minutes left. Sometimes they will say the kitchen is closed, sometimes they can't because people are still ordering.

One thing I miss about reddit is that I could just filter out r/teenagers

We've been so busy fighting extremists and gross fetish porn that we forgot to quarantine the annoying children.
- Where can I fight this gross fetish porn? I need to, uh, join the fight, too...
- I just try to blend in
- Lmao it pains me every time I think of my prior behavior as a kid on the net. Becoming an adult, I was not prepared to face the shame of my behavior simply due to my lack of understanding. I genuinely thought I knew. ugh.
- Wasn't r/teenagers filled with pedoes?
Im also saddened that this is at the top of my feed. I want to laugh not be annoyed by some shitpost badly hidden as a meme.

OP take a look back at this in about 5-10 years and realize how monumentally ignorant it is.

- We owe each other a lot.
- I'm an adult and still kinda feel this way.
  I didn't ask to be here and it just gets harder everyday. Even when I'm doing what I'm "supposed" to do to be happy
- They didn't ask to get born, and you people get all bent out of shape when they kill themselves.
I don't think OP is thinking that far into their future. I don't think OP has any plans for higher education either. It's been a few decades for me, but when I was an undergrad, if your pager went off in class --cell phones weren't really a thing yet-- most professors would ask you to leave, which was not a good thing in the small upper division classes as they were very difficult and you had to pass with a B or better to move on in my major.
I just wanted to be able to listen to my music while doing work.

What would you prefer the school do?

How could they motivate you to actually pay attention in class instead of playing with your phone? Honestly ask yourself if this "addressing motivation" would make geometry more interesting than tiktok.

Well said. Social media is designed specifically to hold attention and encourage addictive behavior. There's no way to compete.
- In one episode of hannah montanna they use a song and dance to learn about the skeleton bones. I still remember the song after like 10 years, lol
My school solved it by existing before smartphones did
not treat students like indentured servants? productively encourage them to pay attention instead of imposing austere zero tolerance policies? do you really think that people in ancient greece paid attention to every second of lecture because there weren't any phones?
could you, yes you, in your day to day life, handle being forced to go through school again? to learn something new every hour of every weekday and being given obligatory deadlines, not even being paid for the work, having to be there at like 7:30am, having even less control over your personhood and freedom just a few years after being born?
school didn't have to suck as much as it did.
- could you, yes you, in your day to day life, handle being forced to learn something new every hour of every weekday and being given deadlines, not even being paid for the work, having to be there at like 7:30am, having even less control over your personhood or freedom just a few years from being born?
  The fuck you think everyone has to go through in their lives prior to being an adult.
  Edit: though
- Sounds like everyday work life
- This opinion is wild bud. Firstly, I disagree with the every hour of every weekday; once you take into account breaks, lunches, the much shorter working day, sports, and the way classes should usually be front-loaded with information then flipped for engagement, you’re maybe spending 10-15 hours a week “learning” and the rest practicing/applying. In my career I’ve generally had to spend much more than that each week learning.
  Secondly you aren’t slaves, you have the option to down tools and just remain poorly educated without ramifications that endanger you immediate life/safety. That you don’t is as much to do with knowing it’s a shit idea, as it is societal pressure.
  Thirdly, the people of Ancient Greece didn’t pay attention every second, but when their mind wandered they were at least able to move back to the topic at hand, tbh, if you miss enough context scrolling reels, you won’t be able to catch back up, and so many will just give up and stay on their phones.
  Lastly, society around you pays for your education, it’s part of the social contract we live in. The resourcing of schools is already woefully low, please define how stretching those resources to accommodate completely preventable delinquency, is at all worthwhile. By draining time you aren’t only robbing the school, you’re taking from the students next to you who don’t want to spend their time acting like entitled children.
- could you, yes you, in your day to day life, handle being forced to learn something new every hour of every weekday and being given obligatory deadlines, not even being paid for the work, having to be there at like 7:30am, having even less control over your personhood and freedom just a few years after being born?
  Bruh, you’re arguing with people who have already gone through school.
  Yeah it sucks sometimes, we all know. We did it. The exact thing you’re bitching about and acting like no one else knows how bad you have it? We did it.
  When adults tell teenagers that they understand, they aren’t just saying that because they want the teenagers to listen. They’re saying it because they remember when everything seemed so profoundly unfair. We really do understand…but you’re still wrong.
  School sometimes sucks, but what you gain from it is remarkable. Take advantage of it, because work load only increases from here. You are at a time of your life where your major duty is to learn stuff and then prove you learned it. You may very well someday look back on this and go, “Damn, wish I’d appreciated it more.”
- Your statement would sound a lot less dramatic if not for the fact that literally everyone goes to school.
  "Not being paid for your work" 🤣🤣🤣
  My man, your book report is contributing nothing to society. Future scholars will not look upon it with awe. It is purely an exercise to help students as a whole develop as individuals.
  Here's my question - how do you expect teachers, who are actually providing society with a much-needed service, who are already well understood to be overworked and underpaid, to productively encourage students to pay attention?
- This is how work operates, except I'm there for two more hours.
Maybe if they used blender(the software) to explain it.
- If they try to use a blender (the kitchen appliance), I'm sure it will also become interesting.

I can try to make the material interesting and be engaging but if you're watching Overwatch on your phone all of that is a moot point.

but if you're watching Overwatch
You can just take away their phone in that case, no?
Not sure about OP, but my point is that phones can be useful. But if they're clearly not...
- That means teachers would have to discipline, which means that the superintendent or school board would have to pay a fair salary and give fair tools, which means the state or city would have to up the budget, which means that we wouldn't be able to repave the roads in the nice part of town next spring.

Wrong. Get off the phone.

Says the neurotypical teacher to the kid who can't concentrate without music during study time.
- How you going to hear what the teacher is saying when listening to music?
- many entire generations of people did not have this luxury
- Can you not pair Bluetooth earbuds to your school laptop?
- Just do what I did in school and put an earphone down your sleeve. Rest head on hand. Listen to music. It's not difficult, I got away with it in exams ffs (I dont recommend that last bit btw, that was young stupidity in hindsight)
- During class. You made up "study time". No one cares if your on your phone studying during "study time" in the library. But if someone is lecturing you shouldn't be on your phone or have earbuds in.

read up on dopamine if you didn't understand
While you're on that, you could research how things don't become more interesting by the absence of more interesting things and how dopamine is required for attention and information retention.
Doing nothing to motivate except removing potential distractions from unengaging school work doesn't work and can even hurt students' mental health as they experience issues of guilt and inadequacy from being unable to do what's required of them.
- What exactly should be done to motivate?
  I ask because schools do a lot to motivate but kids often dismiss it as lame or complain about the efforts. It's very easy to say "motivate kids" but actual ideas aren't common.
  Let me give you an example, everyone has heard "when will we use this in real life?" in math class. The same people asking those questions are the same that groan at word problems. So you have kids complaining that won't be able to use something in real life, and upset when they have to solve a real life problem. What's the real complaint the student has? They have to try.
  I agree that so much more can be done to make school fun, but it's not all on the teachers. Students have to be present, participate and willing to leave their comfort zone in order to have better results.
staring at a wall is more interesting then (badly done) school
- Hey at least they give you some books to read if you're bored. They're heavy as hell, but you might learn something and get a well needed break from the phone.

Technology is clinically known to suppress emotions. It has a correlation to a-motivation. So banning technology use in school is actually good. It's just that most schools think that will fix all the motivation problems, which it will not.

Does it though? That kind of sounds like buzzword science to me. Especially since I can't find anything that actually says that it is technology being at fault here.
- Yes, it absolutely does. We have a finite limit of attention / emotional energy / etc and most of the stuff on your phone is tailor made to try and monopolize it.
- || https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.31887/DCNS.2020.22.2/gsmall# ||
  A 2014 meta-analysis indicated a correlation between media use and attention problems. [ http://www.pewinternet.org/2018/05/31/teens-social-media-technology-2018 ]
  A recent survey of adolescents without symptoms of ADHD at the start of the study indicated a significant association between more frequent use of digital media and symptoms of ADHD after 24 months of follow-up.Citation [ https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2687861 ]
  Executive Functioning: Executive function refers to a set of high-order cognitive abilities that enable humans to plan, focus attention, remember instructions, and juggle multiple tasks successfully. The reason for the link between technology use and attention problems is uncertain, but might be attributed to repetitive attentional shifts and multitasking, which can impair executive functioning. [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26999354/]
  In a study of children aged 8 to 12 years, more screen and less reading time were associated with decreased brain connectivity between regions controlling word recognition and both language and cognitive control.[ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29215151/ ] Such connections are considered important for reading comprehension and suggest a negative impact of screen time on the developing brain. Structurally, increased screen time relates to decreased integrity of white-matter pathways necessary for reading and language. [ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31682712/ ]
  || https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26999354/ ||
  "Correlations between symptoms of addictive technology use and mental disorder symptoms were all positive and significant, including the weak interrelationship between the two addictive technological behaviors."
  || https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/140/Supplement_2/S76/34184?utm_source=TrendMD ||
  "Although no studies showing causal relationships yet exist, problematic Internet use is associated with having greater difficulties in emotion regulation.." [ https://europepmc.org/article/med/25041745 ]
  there are too many and I don't have more time atm.

If schools only focused on what students were motivated to learn, I'm not sure schools would really be accomplishing much. Not to say that schools shouldn't foster motivation in students. Just that technology, especially social media, is very effective at distracting people.

You can increase motivation to learn by making lessons more engaging even if it's a subject they're not personally interested in. But making lessons more interesting and engaging is not easy and we can't expect all teachers to have the skills and resources to do the research and development needed to produce lesson plans that are really interesting. I think it could be improved by putting more money into developing interesting lesson plans centrally and distributing the materials to teachers to follow instead of just producing dry curriculums. Teachers need support.
- I have literally built a dungeons and dragons campaign to learn statistics, and had some students on their phones. I'm not a dancing bear, and having a dopamine panic-button makes it near impossible to engage with anything challenging (I struggle with it too and know it's an anxiety crutch, but it's super maladaptive).
- But also, screen addiction is very real
That aren't motivated and are bored as hell; the average motivation level for schools where I live is a 2.9... out of 10. If kids aren't motivated and they have devices on them, what do you think they would do in class?
- They would probably be more likely to stare at their phones instead of learning if they did.
  I do think that having students sit at desks for hours at a time is not an effective way of teaching. Giving students different ways of learning is beneficial and more likely to motivate them. But that usually is more work and more expensive to do.
  In an ideal world, every student would have an individualized, self paced learning program with a dedicated teacher. Unfortunately, that's not the case for nearly any student.

I agree that the school environment should be more motivating, but there's no way to compete with apps and games designed to be addictive, even adults have trouble avoiding their phones at work.

it's called having discipline

School will never be as interesting as a phone. Your teacher will never be as entertaining as an influencer. Your textbooks will never be as entertaining as your feed. What families and teenagers have to understand is that education is a choice. If you want to learn, you’ll probably have to put your phone down for long periods of time to actively listen and learn. It’s difficult. It tires you out. It’ll frustrate you. But you will eventually learn.

Then again - when I look at home prices and inflation, I understand young people’s feelings of futility.

Good luck young people. I’m really rooting for you to figure this out.

As a former young person that came from poverty and is finally buying a house in a high cost of living area, go read "so good they can't ignore you" it might help with the figuring out!
I don't think it's just a feeling of futility - it's true phones can be distracting and offer more potential entertainment, and it's true learning can sometimes be a slog. At the same time, learning can be fun and engaging, and phones can offer access to a wealth of information (of highly varying quality, admittedly).
Concentrating too hard on mere academic success as gauged by metrics like school grades is undoubtedly discouraging for a student who only goes to school if they are told they must.
Your teacher will never be as entertaining as an influencer.
Those influencers are entertaining?
When I look at home prices I know that school never has been good. People don't understand what they have to do to drive down prices.
Why can't Tiktok be used to find the best courses? There is no need for teachers to teach when Tiktok can do it better. Let teachers become mentors.
people learn things all the time despite phones existing. the issue is not solely being more entertaining. people need to find their learning meaningful and aligned with their own interests and goals. students don't, and so they go on their phones. go to a college classroom and you'll see people more engaged on average. still far from perfect, and that system is broken in many ways too, but people are at least studying something they chose and are presumably interested in.
"I'm really rooting for you to figure this out" rings hollow. we all need to be part of the solution. gen Z feels like it's carrying the expectation of fixing literally every societal problem right now and it sucks.

It's always rude to not listen. So phones should not be allowed during class.

However, It's rude not to allow breaks, growth, emergencies, and the fact that they are in fact, kids. They should be allowed to socialize, enjoy youth, and understand hierarchy/respect. So to earn respect, you must respect first.

Let the kids have their phones/computers as that is the modern world we live in. They will have technology. Don't discourage it just because some people learned "you won't always have a calculator in your pocket". Well, now you do, so rather than ban it, teach them to USE IT!!! Just... properly.

Adapt the teaching, not the class.

I would still disagree about phone usage.
Even when in school, phone helped me quite a bit with education. Having a way to do a quick fact-check is invaluable.
Now as I'm finishing getting my degree such devices became an inseparable part of the process.
Yes, you may not always listen to what's being said whilst using them, but lets be frank, you wouldn't be listening to those parts either way.
School education in a lot of places is fundamentally flawed. It's extremely difficult to learn when you're expected to absorb information just by listening and writing.
I'd agree with OPs sentiment here, off-topic smartphone usage isn't the cause for worse education, but instead is a result of poor engagement in the first place. Should people be more engaged in the topic then suddenly smartphones start being used as a studying tool and not for entertainment. There are many ways of achieving that, but that's a whole different story.
- I think the biggest issue isn't letting kids use a tool, it's getting kids to do the work.
  I recently worked with a bunch of kids in college, all stem majors, who couldn't Google effectively or do basic math in their heads. It's not a matter of "don't let them use a resource" it's that many people won't try.
  Limiting technology isn't cruelty, it's vital for learning many skills. Number sense can't be taught by a taking a picture and writing an answer.
Are there schools that don't teach calculator usage? Even 10-15 years ago German schools (at least in the states I looked at) had the option to teach math with either basic calculators, scientific calculators, or computer algebra systems in grades 9-13 (I think) with most schools picking scientific calculators even back then. I would expect that to have moved into earlier grades and more advanced devices nowadays.
- I meam, i remember even in 5th grade nearly 20 years ago them telling us "you wont always have a calculator in your pocket" and this was happening when vell phones were becoming mainstream enough that some of us did have flip phones
I second this.

The amount of times I told my students they can use their phone for certain exercises, then 90% of them just went on Tiktok or played Clash Of Clans, is why is started not allowing phones.

I get that to the 10% it was super helpful but it's just easier to not allow everyone.

Well, at least you gave them a chance. Thank you.
- I'm all for giving them a chance to prove they're able to be responsible. Especially the kids that always try hard and deserve to be trusted.
  I found that a lot of kids struggled to accept any consequences of their actions, though taking their phones off them for playing games was pretty clear to them.
It would be funny if people were forced to do something akin to mandatory military service but for working at a school as a paraprofessional or other aide for a little while. I feel like most people really have no idea how much teachers have to juggle and deal with on a daily basis. Come see how my kids behave when left to their own devices and then judge me.
- Everyone should have to work a retail/customer service/care/teaching job, its eye opening the way people treat those they see as in their service.
- For sure! A lot of parents don't really understand the amount of stuff teachers have to go through either, and we don't get paid for the hundreds of hours we do outside of teaching hours.
  It's why I had to quit in the end. Felt like I couldn't give it my all because I was mentally and physically exhausted.
Like flight mode there should be school mode where students can only use a provided wlan that comes with content filters.
- Block cellular with thick walls, then only allow them through wifi. Things like youtube can only be acces with a cabled connection. Something like this seems like a good start.
- 100%, if the schools were funded well enough, issuing school phones would be amazing!
  School computers work well because they block most of the distractions but ofc students have 1001 distractions in their own!

How do I motivate my students? I'll need to know by 7:30 am PST tomorrow.

Thanks!

Obviously by letting them use computer and mobile phones
.
Heh, "Motivate", sounds mostly impossible. At least with some subjects. But maybe there could be some improvements. Here's some of my dumb and likely useless thoughts:
If it's in your competence, allow phones during breaks. I believe that could make classes without them much easier.
Fresh air: Helps alot. I don't know why some teachers absolutely hate open windows. All you can do on those classes is try to not fall asleep with your heart pounding.
Allow water during classes: Similar to above, dehydration helps no one.
Engage with students: Try to have conversations with them, give them questions, let them give questions to you (on topic). I've had a few teachers that would just do 45 minute monotone monologues.
If possible, give some demonstration or real life use examples. This works well especially with chemistry and physics.
Positive and negative points: For example, 5 pluses may be A, and 5 minuses F. I prefer the system where pluses and minuses null out each other, otherwise a plus may make your grades worse, leading to lack of activity. Someone not paying attention or not knowing answer to questions, minus. Someone being positively active during classes, answering questions, plus. You can decide what makes plus and what minus and how many are needed for the grade.
Quick activities (like optional tests): Math teachers did this since elementary school. Teachers would give a math problem and some time to solve it. First x students to solve it correctly got a good grade, others could get pluses. For example, first 3 students to solve a math problem within 15 minutes get A, the next students get a plus. Those who did nothing get nothing. Like a small optional exam. It makes it worth being prepared. Just don't make the window too small, like "First student to solve this within 5 minutes gets A, next ones get nothing", because most will just give up.
Announce exams in advance: This gives students time to study before each exam. The likelihood that someone will study AFTER a surprise exam is quite low.
Give option to re-do an exam: Got a bad grade? Don't give up yet. Put in some more effort to get a better grade. I've seen different approaches on this. Sometimes it would replace previous grade, sometimes you'd just get another. Sometimes unconditionally, sometimes only if it's better. I'd choose a second grade conditionally. If it replaced the grade, you wouldn't see as many studying for first exam, relying on "fixing it later". Conditionally because if there's a chance of getting worse grade, I may just as well not try, just in case.
Movies or shows: Applies to foreign language classes. If it catches their interest, they may not even realize they're learning. You could occasionally do that as a reward. Reward = motivation. Tip: Subtitles may be helpful. The problem with this is finding something universally interesting.
Try to not treat the whole class as 1 person: Punishing whole class for actions of 1 student will make YOU more disliked than that student.
Respect: I don't know how you could do this. But some teachers may gain respect among students. I believe this is more valuable than using power. But again, no idea what you could do for that.
Outside?: My middle school geography teacher did her classes outside during summer. Nothing changed about those classes, it was just outside. Better environment.
Minimize homework: Homework is one good way to absolutely hate a subject. This could be partially replaced with optional projects. If it's optional, it doesn't feel as bad anymore.
Ask students for feedback: There's a small chance you may get some useful answers.
But you probably can't do much past trying to be nice. Biggest problem is the extra unnecessary information being taught, but if you can't determine what precisely will be useful in the future, you can't know what to omit. Missing knowledge is probably worse.
Edit: Fixed some typos

This is just a weird comparison

Neither one really has anything to do with the other.
In fact, I'd say getting rid of phones could help improve motivation because when students are more focused on school, they're more motivated and perform better.
This meme was made by a middle schooler who doesn't understand the higher-level decisions being made by educators.

Not only kids struggle with this, adults too. I've seen restaurant visits where everyone puts their phone on a pile on the table, first one to ring pays the bill. Otherwise Billy couldn't stop texting his controlling partner all night.

There is more research to be done, but so far this might be a good thing: https://www.verywellmind.com/how-do-smartphones-affect-the-brain-2794892

first one to ring pays the bill
Always eating for free 😁
Always eating for free 🥲
- Everybody knows how to mute their phone or turn it off, and the other end can get used to them being busy and unavailable sometimes.

Multiple studies have shown that smartphone decrease concentration, and have negative impact on emotional well being in adolescents.

The mere presence of a smartphone reduces basal attentional performance https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-023-36256-4

Brain Drain: The Mere Presence of One’s Own Smartphone Reduces Available Cognitive Capacity https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/full/10.1086/691462

Attention or Distraction? The Impact of Mobile Phone on Users' Psychological Well-Being https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8093572/

Mobile phone use, behavioural problems and concentration capacity in adolescents: A prospective study https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1438463916300645

Second slide makes the first one possible but will still take effort beyond that

I don't think so tbh. If students are motivated enough, then this policy wouldn't need to be pursued.
- A lot of kids are really addicted to their phones it's hard to even talk to them when they just always have their phone in their hand

Something I’ve found to have worked well in the past is phone breaks. It helps regulate phone usage and makes students far more likely to pay attention, myself included. The teachers that had the most success gave us phone breaks. Regulation and breaks > punishments.

This does seem like a pretty good idea.

Even before phones schools were like this. But they'd just put you in mandatory extra classes to fix your grades. Instead of, you know, talking to you. To get to know how you are doing and how you're feeling.

I've hated my school time and all it taught me is teachers are obsessed with having power over others. Maybe not all teachers, but a lot are like this. They won't listen to you, they just force their opinion on you. And if you don't do well in their pre-made lecturing framework then it's on you because you don't pay attention and you are lazy. It's never on them.

Next level update your /etc/hosts to point time wasting websites to localhost

I think addressing low motivation levels is beyond the scope of the school's ability to affect things. When I was in high school I remember not caring about much of anything because I was convinced that even though I was almost certainly going to college, I would still just end up in a 'passionless bullshit make-work dead end job' like my parents, working long hours just to eke out a meager living, enough to keep getting back in the goddamn hamster wheel, and that really sapped my will to do anything productive. I ended up being completely right but I'm lucky enough to be living in this era of realization that work in the states is inherently bullshit, and that I make enough money to pursue passions outside of my 8-6.

Oh no, school sucks.

In classrooms children shouldn't remove their phones from their pockets at all, they are there to focus on the class. If we removed our phones from our pockets, they would be confiscated until the end of class, and rightly so.

School is for paying attention and learning, not for going into your own little world on your phone (which we're all guilty of).

Also, the only time you need to use a computer at school is during IT lessons, or study/research sessions. School is the time that we learn and perfect our handwriting abilities, and our abilities to read through books, make notes based on what the teacher is saying, or writing on the blackboard, etc. It is not appropriate to pull out a laptop and use that instead, because that won't teach the child these important hand skills.

I'm talking about primary school and secondary school, and mostly college too. Once the student is 18 and begins university, there's nothing stopping them from using computers or phones, it's up to them to regulate their own attention and such.

I think that's all pretty reasonable and fair.

Why do you need to learn handwriting skills? I personally write everything to notes on my phone or laptop in real life and the only place where I need to hand-write long pieces of text is in school. Writing on a blackboard skills must be a joke. School should teach you to make notes based on what the teacher is saying (the skill here is being able to find the useful information and being able to store it), but the method of writing it should be the method you are gonna use irl. For me and most people in my age I believe, it's writing it on phone or a laptop. Tbf phones in school bring various problems, but I don't think lack of writing skills is among them.
- Well, at University, we learned that students retain more of what they're learning, when writing. Our brains are not fully adapted yet to process typed input as well as written.

to answer your question, there is no reason other than america's fetishization of the protestant work ethic.

schools don't need to be a joyless labor camp. you already have to wake up far too early and be there all day, can't you at least be on your phone? maybe give kids a break? everyone has stress in their lives, my anxiety started in 5th grade, maybe i don't have the mental capacity for 7 fucking classes today and i check out after 5. just like no honest person pays full rapt attention every minute of their jobs.

in college you can basically be on your phone during class and i remember just as much from college as i do grade school. either way, you have to study for the exams. if you aren't gonna pay attention, there are plenty of ways to do so. being forced to listen doesn't necessarily increase absorption.

Ah yes, americas protestant work ethic is why phones are not allowed in schools. Silly me I thought it was because it lowers motivation and promotes cheating
- I thought it was because its distracting to the student and their peers? Cant focus on the lesson when youre playing games on your phone, and converselye when another student is playing games on their phone.

School logic. Infinite power to punish and restrict, infinite resources to harm and burden, nothing for support or uplift.

It’s not anyone else’s job to support and uplift you. Be a strong person and learn to strive to overcome.
Quit being so soft, this is the easy part
- Quit being so soft
  what happened to lemmy, what the fuck is this shit, how does this have 9 upvotes? quit being so soft? go back to boomer facebook, jesus fucking christ
- You must be LARPing. You’re far too much of a caricature to be real. You gonna lecture me about my bootstraps next? Pen an op ed about how “nobody wants to work anymore”?
- This is the one time I wouldn't mind if the Hexbearians would come in and be assholes.
I don't know about you, but my school did the best it could. Some adults might even say what you said about society in general - infinite resources to harm and burden, etc. People usually try their best, your teachers too. Maybe you'll grow up to be a teacher and you'll be better at it than the ones you had. Good luck!
- I grew up and became a librarian instead, because I genuinely enjoy helping people find the things they are interested in, but couldn't lend my energy to a system that doesn't care about the that they are interested in part, among other flaws.

American society has always been HIGHLY punitive with an almost non existent interest in actually solving a problem. Even the most "liberal" of us if you mention plugging the social/economic holes that lead to massive crime spikes get all

"Mayyybbeeee I guuueeeesssssss but like what you can't just NOT throw the book at them and ruin their life forever?!?! How else will they stop doing crime if we don't effectively take away their ability to earn a valid living via criminal charges?!?!"

Maybe the US could incorporate the silent kids to parole with guns and motivate the other kids to learn. It would be a win-win-win situation wouldn't it?

Phones certainly decrease our level of motivation by decreasing our dopamine baseline. Huberman Labs episodes addressing dopamine are really interesting

Yknow they could fix a lot getting rid of textbooks....so uh yea. Hands on shiz for the classes that need them and less teaching people to regurgitate and still missing half the facts they ought to know from history. Esp in a effort to make us history look good....when no we were awful lmao

They still need to teach with something, and textbooks are expensive
- Well there's a bunch of content some of my teachers have pulled from that's just as good. Hell with history it's a good idea not to have a state textbook anyway. Shiz omits so much it's unreal. Or it tries to paint times before the Civil war as the best of times despite us yknow owning people o_O

P.S: This also applies during breaks.

I've only seen cultish schools ban phones during break.
- It's Standard practice in Germany except for maybe the 11th and 12th graders at some schools.

yeah, too many school authorities do act taht way. For a approach going more in the opposite direction, see, for example: https://piped.video/watch?v=dk60sYrU2RU (maybe skip to aa minute in. presented, the idea, in that case, by sugata mitra. The Talk is not new, but still relevant I'd think, and relates to the post here. ) 💻🖥️

For anotger, similar, but also different example, see https://piped.video/watch?v=WNuv0_MLrKg this one specifically mentions phones early on, too.

So if you believe in, or are open to the idea, that the approach in in the main meme post isn't the best, then the stories in the piped videos might be of some intrest to you.

tdlr: 🎶you can use your phone if yiu want to, yiu can leave your technophobe schoolmaster behind,... 🎶🎧