All this thread tells me is how little memory people have. Late into Obama's office, he brokered a deal that would have reduced Iran's ability to create wmds in exchange for lifting sanctions while giving the rest of the world the ability to monitor them to make sure they actually stop trying to make a wmd. Trump infamously cancelled this deal early into his first run and now people are acting like he's doing a good job by wanting to attack Iran- Trump created this problem in the first place!
Trump created this problem in the first place!
I think it's good to be absolutely crystal clear on what the problem is. Iran is not building nuclear weapons. They say this themselves, and the entire American intelligence community, as well as the UN's IAEA agree that they haven't since 2003. The amount of evidence that Iran is building WMDs is exactly the same as it was for Iraq in the early 2000s (i.e., non-existent). So that's not the problem.
Trump created this problem in the first place!
That's his whole strategy and always has been. Manufacture a crisis when something doesn't go right and reduce risk of getting closer to an orange jumpsuit. Ever notice nobody is talking about the Epstein Files now? He always pops ninja smoke. Only his poof of smoke is this giant splatter of shit that makes a mess for everyone to clean up while he escapes. The other big factor of this is that 75 million Americans are happy to clean all that up and ask for more.
Warmongering and unconditional support is bipartisan.
Biden never did anything to fix it, they're invariably 'sabotaged by the other side and powerless', same as with every other issue.
Like when Trump unilaterally ended the missile treaties.
If anything Biden escalated tension with Iran with some aggresive actions.
And anyway Iran never was planning to get nukes.
They are an advanced country and have nuclear energy which is their right.
The scaremongering lies by the genocide state and their big bully friend do not change that.
If anything, I hope they change their mind and start working on a nuke since they invariably get provoked and attacked for no reason.
This is a dumb meme because the whole argument is that if Iran gets nukes then we won't be able to attack them.
However I do think it's funny how many of the justifications for the unprovoked attacks on Iran sound exactly like Russian justifications if you just switch a couple names around:
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Iran having nukes is a threat to the US security/Ukraine joining NATO (which would allow them to station nukes there) is a threat to Russian security
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Iran's government is full of radical Islamists/Ukraine's government is full of Banderite Nazis
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Iran is firing ordinance off at civilian targets in Israel, as part of their aim to exterminate Jews/Ukraine is firing ordinance off at civilian targets in Donbass, as part of their aim to exterminate Russians.
It's very silly how all these arguments are accepted as "obvious" and reasonable when it's our side, but flip the picture and it suddenly it becomes just as "obvious" that those lines of reasoning are not valid. At no point is either Iran or Russia's perspective seriously considered because they're the bad guys and we're the good guys, whether and to what extent those reasons are valid simply flips depending on who's using them.
Propaganda is a hell of a drug.
I'm confused why people are downvoting you
I assume because the people I'm criticizing don't have any other response, that's generally what downvotes mean.
Yeah but Ukraine was aggressive.
Russia is making it into a neutral neighbour akin Canada.
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I'd like to thank the mods for leaving conflicting comments up. I've seen too many echo chambers going up on lemmy. Appreciate you all. Also appreciate those I don't agree with for sharing their ideas, calling me out on mine and sometimes changing my mind, and taking the time for discourse. Those who argue in bad faith, have no open mind, and pretend to have empathy, fuck yourself.
The claim is (as always), Iran is on the verge of having nuclear weapons.
The whole idea is that if Iran did get nuclear weapons, it would be too risky to attack them, and that they could use their immunity from being attacked to make the world a much worse place.
I don't know if we should believe the assessments of their capabilities. Israel has been saying they're days, weeks or months away from having a nuclear weapon for going on 30 years now. But, AFAIK, nobody has actually said that they currently do have WMD.
Claiming that BS for 30 years:
https://tankie.tube/w/sh7jHCDiBgK74cjdV9wxVbHow have they been unable to make a nuclear weapon in that time, are they stupid?
Well, if they had been trying, they probably would have done it. So, the fact they haven't done it suggests...
According to the UN's IAEA, as well as the American intelligence community, they haven't tried building nukes since 2003.
Can someone fill me in, is there any actually grounds for Israel to attack Iran and why is the United States involved, y'know other than the usual simping for Israel.
No, you've pretty much got it.
I know people don't like to hear this but Iran has been funding terrorism forever now. Hezbolah, Houtis, Hamas - are all funded by Iran. They also been clearly working on nuclear weapons so you don't need to do complex math to see why Iran is a threat to Israel. If Iran ever gets nukes 100% they'd be aiming them at Israel or cover conventional attacks behind nuclear weapons.
As for US, Israel literally exists because it gives US an in to middle east. It's only real US ally that aligns with west's freedoms in the region and is capable of executing military and security operations in the region so obviously is a very important subject.
Brainwashed lib who has no clue who the actual "terrorists" are is here promoting genocide and terrorism? Zero surprise.
Because war helps economy. Even tho it makes everyone suffer on both sides and last few wars didnt help economy at all unless you sell weapons.
Also WW2 ended great depression right after unions were legalized and first minimum wage law was signed into law. But yeah it was totally the war that singlehandedly fixed everything.
/sarcasm
war helps economy.
Yeah that tells you what "the economy" is actually worth.
Iraq, after the Gulf War, was never found by the IAEA to be in possession of or active production of uranium in excess of 20% target enrichment. That's a level consistent with civilian-only use.
The IAEA has repeatedly confirmed Iran has enriched uranium to 60% in increasingly large quantities. Iran has also admitted it, and provides nebulous excuses when pressed about it. There is zero modern civilian purpose for that level of enrichment, and it doesn't take much time to refine from 60% to 85% for high yield weapons grade uranium. Days to months, not years.
Assessments have concluded that Iran does not yet have a functional nuclear weapon, but once they do possess one, now your hands are tied. The only winning move is a pre-emptive strike to prevent nuclear proliferation. Talks are meaningless and not in good faith - Iran sees Israel as a mortal enemy that already has nuclear weapons. Like with North Korea, Iran's nuclear proliferation was used as an indefinite negotiating tool and never intended to be off the table. Iran also does not have a plausible defense purpose for nuclear weapons. If they think the US or Israel would wage war to topple the Iranian state, wouldn't those countries have done it already over the past 50 years? Iran's leadership has, over and over, declared their intent to destroy Israel. They provide weapons and support for proxy groups fighting Israel. Who's to say they wouldn't deliver a nuclear device to a proxy group that sneaks it into Tel Aviv and detonates it, then denies responsibility?
Should have dunked on North Korea before they completed their bomb too, but I guess unlike Iran, their regional partner China wasn't already preoccupied losing another war.
Days to months, not years.
If Iran is days to months away from a nuclear bomb, then for all intents and purposes they already have a nuclear bomb. The fact they don't have a nuclear bomb already despite having 60% enriched uranium for years can only mean that they simply don't want a nuclear bomb.
The only winning move is a pre-emptive strike to prevent nuclear proliferation.
The only winning move is diplomacy to prevent nuclear proliferation, aka JOCPA. I wonder how that went. Also I find claims that Iran is so close to a nuclear bomb very doubtful given that they've been around for literal decades.
No, days to months away from weapons grade enriched uranium if they so chose. If you don't trust what the International Atomic Energy Agency has to say about nuclear proliferation from on-site assessments, I guess there's no convincing you of anything else.
Iran also does not have a plausible defense purpose for nuclear weapons. If they think the US or Israel would wage war to topple the Iranian state, wouldn't those countries have done it already over the past 50 years?
Shills straight up denying not just reality but the events they're spewing propaganda about. Gotta love the gung ho 15 year old attitude by people who have managed to lose every engagement they had in Asia since 1945 with even that mostly because they didn't have to worry about the other axis countries. Ever thank China and USSR fot taking care of Japan on the mainland while you were busy drowning and flapping about in the Pacific? No, you recruited Unit 731 criminals instead.
Anyway reminder for delulu revisionists like you, you tried to dunk on Korea already back when "their regional partner" was vastly weaker than now and failed miserably. You'd have tried it if failing again wasn't inevitable. That's why NK has nukes, not because you supposedly allowed them to have them or were neglectful lmao.
Iran also does not have a plausible defense purpose for nuclear weapons
Hmm, that's an interesting argument, but I read something recently that challenges that idea, it was some user who said something like, uhh, "once they do possess one, now your hands are tied."
Warmongering psycho can't even keep their arguments straight without self-contradicting in the same paragraph.
How anybody can take these insane positions so casually is beyond my comprehension. No one like you should ever have a voice in politics
Call your rep - demand Israel pay reparations for attacks.
Israel - what's with the face?
they literally are attacking russia through ukraine though.
i expect them to somehow attack china soon too.
hahaha.
and they are building a "golden dome" with the best possible outcome -> matching Israel's not working net. lmao
https://t.me/boris_rozhin/169440?singleOh good, someone made a second one of these inane memes
