'Maybe the problem is you' ... Linus Torvalds wades into Linux kernel Rust driver drama

I am so glad Linus just came out and said it. I was pretty upset at Hector too in the other thread the other day, and I especially didn't appreciate a call to remove a major developer from the kernel because Hector wasn't getting his way. Very militant action on Hector's part where it just wasn't necessary.

Hector, if you're reading this, communication skills are just as if not more important than your Rust development skills, and frankly your communication skills lack.

https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/20250108122825.136021-1-abdiel.janulgue@gmail.com/

Here’s the source thread.

Tldr: someone wants to put rust in the dma part of the kernel (the part that accesses memory directly)(it’s a memory allocator abstraction layer written in rust which rust code can use directly instead of dealing with the c allocator abstraction layer), is told that rust should use the extant methods to talk to the c dma interface, replies that doing so would make rust programs that talk to dma require some more code, gets told “that’s fine. We can’t do a split codebase”. The two parties work towards some resolution, then hector martin comes in and acts like jerk and gets told to fuck off by Linus.

Martin is no lennart poettering but I don’t try to see things from his perspective anymore.

It’s worth noting that Linus’ “approval” of rust in the kernel isn’t generally seen as a blanket endorsement, but a willingness to see how it might go and rust people have been generally trying to jam their code everywhere using methods that rival the cia simple field sabotage manual.

I don’t think it’s on purpose (except for maybe Martin) but a byproduct of the kernel maintainers moving slowly but surely and the rust developers moving much faster and some seeing the solution to that slow movement as jamming their foot in the door and wedging it open.

FTA: "However, I will say that the social media brigading just makes me not want to have anything at all to do with your approach.

"Because if we have issues in the kernel development model, then social media sure as hell isn't the solution. The same way it sure as hell wasn't the solution to politics.

"Technical patches and discussions matter. Social media brigading - no thank you." -Linus

Yeah, I have to issue an unqualified agreement here. Linus isn't saying no to Rust, he's smackin' that ass for bringing drama out into social media instead of working through it in normal technical discussion channels.

The quote he replied to:

If shaming on social media does not work, then tell me what does, because I'm out of ideas.

Yeah, lol

I'm relatively new to Linux and the FOSS scene, but I'm not sure how I feel about the unquestioning devotion to a single person. It seems antithetical to the entire philosophy.

Even if he was maybe right this time...

The dude did a complete 180 as soon as they heard from Linus, like daddy made his decision, and it's final, or some shit...

Edit: To be clear, I understand why developers respect and listen to Linus... I just think there are fundamental issues with this kind of top-down management of such a colossal project, and the desire to defer to one person seems antithetical to the FOSS philosophy.

This whole thing reads not like a codebase versus, but a traditional engineering approach (don't act like you can patch this once you release it - get it done so it's stable the first time) versus the more modern "move fast and break things" approach.

Honestly I kinda wish the Rust devs would rather go and support a project like Redox OS and then maybe we can have less drama about all this.

Rust people are so annoying.

My gut tells me that any benefits of adding Rust is massively negated by the addition of a second language.

If one wants to write Rust, there is always Redox and probably a bunch of other kernels.

I like Rust, but it's for sure an over hyped language. In a year or two, people will push for Zig, Mojo or some new pure and polished functional low level language. Maybe a Scheme or a Lisp? That seems to be what the cool kids use nowadays.

Or maybe we'll just replace the kernel with an AI that generates machine code according with what should be your intention.

linux is amazing. i dunno what rust is, but ive been using linux a long time. i appreciate the modern comfort. but whatever happens happens. itll still be good.

Can someone distill the good faith argument against rust? Is there one?

Could someone explain the backpedalling if rust is more secure ?

that article is horrible to read! every paragraph starts with quotation, but then never closes it😵