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This is what happens when we let conservatives have any sort of power in society
Gonna get downvoted, but conservative ideals should be present to some minor extent to balance things out. I don't mean modern conservatives or Republicans, but the concept of fiscal conservatism (e.g. preventing waste in the military). I'm not talking about the fIsCaL cOnSeRvAtIsM that current Republicans preach either, like hollowing out social programs to give tax cuts to their buddies. So yeah that's of course not what we have now, but there should be a healthy balance for that kind of thing.
The problem is that what you describe is not conservatism, it's just basic competence in governance. It's an impressive achievement of the radical right that they have managed to get people to conflate the two.
Sure that's fair. Whatever you want to label it, there needs to be some kind of balances against full progressivism so it doesn't go extremely far to the left. I say this as a pretty far left progressive in most things, but have some minor conservative ideals (such as individuals wanting to support themselves without relying on outside sources). Again, I'm well aware that's not modern Conservatism in the US these days.
such as individuals wanting to support themselves without relying on outside sources
You mean we shouldn't have social welfare programs?
No public healthcare, no public housing, no public infrastructure, no public health services, no free public education, no social security, no universal basic income
How are any of these bad?
Knowing Better has an incredibly informative video about the history of meritocracy, rugged individualism, and fiscal responsibility in America. I think you'd find it interesting
Who said any of that? You're making up stuff I didn't say...
People that need help should absolutely get it in all those forms. I'm talking about like, not participating in the economy as much. Growing your own food, relying on yourself as much as possible. Like I said in other comments here, I think I've horseshoed around off the left and I've ended up in a hyper-local community driven economy mindset.
When you mentioned conservative values of not relying on outside sources, that's what I thought of due to the historical context of individualism that the video goes over. Didn't mean to imply you were personally against those things.
I'm talking about like, not participating in the economy as much. Growing your own food, relying on yourself as much as possible
I'm guessing you're referencing reducing personal consumption? I'm supportive of that, the idea is rooted in anti-capitalist sentiment. Growing your own food is just a fun hobby, I don't think that has any real political leaning. Food Cooperatives with local communities, such as a neighborhood garden, are left-leaning tho.
Conservatives have historically used the rhetoric of "relying on yourself, not others" to justify gutting social services and replacing them with private businesses as a way to accelerate profit seeking.
No, community driven is great. I want to do more myself
See how quick you were to go to the extreme and start strawmanning everything in your previous comment though? That's the problem.
You mentioned conservative values multiple times, so I took that at face value
sure but in every comment I made it very clear what I think of those programs
Not really when your mentioning conservative values as a counter balance to progressivism. I'm glad you clarified but it certainly didn't come off that way
The people who say this tend to forget that if you only take the "good things" from conservatism it ceases to be conservatism. The conservative ideology is garbage and only leads countries to a sort of destructive cannabalism.
Basically what I mean is the mindset of doing everything possible in your power to be self-sufficient. I think I've gone so far off the left side I've horseshoed around. Everyone should be striving to be as self-sufficient as possible and not need to rely on external forces. I'm far from it, but I'm trying, at least given the past few years (and especially this month) I'm preparing for bad situations.
That is the mindset that got us here. Maybe it will help to double down, but the reality is we don't know, we're in uncharted waters
I'm not saying the government shouldn't help the people who need it though. Bring back FDR. I think that's the big reason why I'm not actually conservative. The help should be there, but people should have an internal desire to rely on outside forces as little as possible. I think many already have that desire, but not enough by far.
I think the atomization of society shows that its not just a desire but that independence is a social pressure. "Pull yourself up by your bootstraps" is the air we breathe. Thats why business people like musk deny they got say, emerald mine money; the social pressure to seem self reliant is far greater than the social pressure to tell the truth
For sure, that's definitely a big American thing. The entire irony is that the term "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" was coined to say how you can't do that, meant to describe an impossible task. Somehow conservatives took it and then made it mean the exact opposite, which is exactly on brand for them.
You won't get downvoted. Ideally you'd have both parties suck it up and work together and combine ideologies. But.. well you know... Babies
Nah, I'm not talking about the actual current Republican party nowadays. They need to die out and form a new party that's actually conservative. It's the most corrupt swamp straight outta Uzbekistan or Russia at this point. The things they're doing now, no Democrats should compromise on ever.
Ideally you wouldn't have two parties, but have an odd number of parties to figure it out. So three at minimum
Ideally you'd have multi-party coalition districts with RCV or STV to elect them. We have a duopoly because of FPTP.
Ideally people wouldn’t use abbreviations in general context. Searching for it on Ecosia doesn’t help that much either.
But coalitions are a mess on their own, just check politics in Europe. At least Geert Wilders is only an example for Trump and nowhere near as bas
Describing the good of the opinions that are more on the right side of the spectrum isn't going to come across as good if you use conservatives to describe it.