What are your thoughts on China promoting peace talks in Palestine?
What are your thoughts on China promoting peace talks in Palestine?
Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas arrived in Beijing on Tuesday to start a three-day state visit.This is Abbas' fifth visit to China. He is also the first Arab head of state to be hosted by China this year.Following a positive trend in the Middle East
It is an interesting development, to be sure. On the one hand, I am glad to see that US influence in the middle east is weakening, and after seeing China negotiate peace between KSA and Iran I am relatively optimistic about China being able to use their growing influence for good.
On the other hand China seems to be aiming for a "two state solution" in Palestine, which I fear will legitimize Israel and harm Palestine in the long run.
What are your thoughts/opinions on this? Is there anything I am missing and should know about?
I don't think it's actually possible for China to make the situation for Palestinians worse... A two state reality would be better than a one state apartheid, which has been the status quo for over 50 years now.
There is no conceivable scenario under which a "two state solution" is viable. That has been dangled in front of Palestinians for decades, in fact promising this has been a Zionist strategy since the very beginning of the occupation. And by now they've played that card so often they don't even bother anymore, the last time anyone who mattered pretended to take that idea seriously was sometime in the early 90s when they used the Oslo Accords to trick the Palestinians with yet more false promises. And even that pretense turned out to be too much for many of the Zionists and they assassinated their own prime minister in 1995 because the mere suggestion of a compromise was unacceptable to them.
Anyone trying to sell you a "two state solution" is either extremely naive and ignorant of history and of the realities of the Zionist occupation and its ideology, or is deliberately trying to fool Palestinians and their supporters, to weaken and demoralize them by driving a wedge between those who are so desperate, corrupt or easily fooled that they would compromise for the sake of "peace" and those who insist on continuing the struggle for complete liberation.
Now i don't mind China going through the motions of looking like they're trying to negotiate in earnest, that is a geopolitical game they have to play, just like they had to pretend to put forward a "peace plan" for Ukraine. It's good for their global image as the peace broker, which contrasts starkly with the US warmonger who stirs up conflict everywhere. But they know nothing is going to come of it.
There is no one-state solution that involves Palestine surving in sight right now. Keep this apartheid regime up as is and Palestine may just end up fully dissolved and eradicated. A two-state solution is basically the same as saying "no more expansion, no more genocide". Just stopping genocide requires a two-state social order. From there, it's possible to proceed. I think it might be impossible to proceed towards the desired one-state solution without first passing through the two-state arrangement first.
Precisely, a one state solution cant arrise without both sides being recognized as equal negotiators.
Big L tbh. Any “solution” that doesn’t include the refugees returning is just a solution to protect the Israeli ethnostate.
Edit: This is long and the first time ive put these ideas on "paper" so please bare with me if things arent well explained.
No matter how much we advocate for a return of land for the Palestinian people and the dissolution of the nation of Israel, the pragmatic answer is this is likely never to happen, at least how many of us see it. This isnt to be negative or liberal or pro Israel, just to accept that the world will not support the dissolution of the so-called Jewish Homeland, at least not to be replaced solely by Palestine. I think the long term solution here starts with a two state first step. Here is my ideas that i have thought of.
Stage 1, this stage is hard asf and has the highest likelihood of failing, the first step for the Palestinian people is to end the immediate situation which is untenable and will lead to a long term and drawn out genocide. This starts with firm borders being drawn, Israel recognizes the state of Palestine and its sovereignty over territories which are agreed upon together, preferably with a southern land corridor to Gaza. Palestine is given full control and rights and is a voting member of the UN.
China then invites Palestine to join the BRI under zero interest loans and helps Palestine build its infrastructure, green energy, clean water, airport, trains whatever. Lifting Palestinians out of poverty, breathing life and dignity into the people.
Stage 2, the middle period, this is a time of growth, which will involved pains, this is hard for both sides, there needs to be some form of reconciliation, not forgetting of crimes, but forgiveness, Israelis and Palestinians learn to live as neighbors, interlocking trade, devlopment, knowledge. This is a long process, likely generations, i wouldnt be surprised if there is war during this period. Will take literal generations to accomplish this.
Stage 3, end period, unification. Long term goal, time frame is like a 100 years, so not soon. Palestine and Israel are dissolved into one state. Palestinians and Israelis become one people, loving and proud of their unified homeland. The interesting thing i realized when talking to Israeli and Palestinian people is how similar they are, ferociously proud, kind, accepting people, and not to sound too much like a feel good liberal, but sometimes we have to put aside our differences, no matter how entrenched, and find common ground, or be doomed to the cyclical nature of hate.
To summarise, if the process keeps at what it is currently, fuel for the Islamists and Ethnonationalist will continue to grow, both sides will move further apart and more people will die. I also want to emphasize this is not to state that the situation is equal on both sides, Israel is the agressor, they are primarily the ones instigating and are the reason this situation is the way it is. But as i mentioned on the outset and something my now dead grandfather used to say all the time, "The pragmatic approach is the best approach"
It's much more likely that a two state solution would lead to the international community regarding the conflict as "solved", and so will kill any movement towards justice.
This will overtime result in the dilution of the Palestinian identity amongst Palestinian refugees, since we will just be told to move on and to assimilate into the countries where we seeked refuge to.
In the meantime, the Palestinian state will continue to be a client state under the complete control and domination of its much more powerful neighbor.
I really cannot see a single example in history where acceptance of the settler colonial state lead to true justice for the indigenous population.
If you look at the USA and Canada for example, the indigenous population continues to fair significantly worse off than the settler population despite being equal on paper (which isn't the case for us in Israeli law). Also despite the indigenous population in USA/Canada being significantly smaller than the settler population, and therefore representing a much smaller threat to the domination of the settlers.
In historic Palestine, both the settlers and the indigenous population have population parity, but when Palestinian refugees are counted, we outnumber them 2:1. So they are significantly less likely to provide even on paper equality, less alone true equality.
I must agree. A lot of people want for Palestine to immediately regain sovereignty over their claimed lands in a single stroke, with all Israelis being deported; but, I don't think that's a realistic position to take.
Like you said, a two-state solution is the first step to an unified one-state nation.
China then invites Palestine to join the BRI under zero interest loans and helps Palestine build its infrastructure, green energy, clean water, airport, trains whatever. Lifting Palestinians out of poverty, breathing life and dignity into the people.
Israel would sooner turn Palestine into a glow-in-the-dark glass parking lot before they allowed that kind of alliance on their doorstep, never even mind 'unification'. Look at who Israel's
alliesbenefactorssugar daddies are. I see the Palestinian struggle as no different from the New Afrikan struggle; they're just in the earlier stages of what we went through, and therefore, in a much better position to nip that shit in the bud before they're all wearing ankle, wrist, and neck cuffs. Hell, 'unification' as you seem to be describing it is nothing more than capitulation, acquiescence to, and subjugation under the settler-apartheid monsters that are currently occupying what is Palestine's with a 'two-state solution'. Settlers are never satisfied with the first bite.With that understanding of the twin struggles, where do you think forgiveness is going to come from? There is no 'forgiveness' for oppressors in my heart anymore, just a torch that won't go out, and a canister of gasoline. It wouldn't surprise me if there are those in Palestine who'd echo my exact words for their colonizers.
"Interesting" as far as for all of China's other strides, I don't believe their work towards a 'two-state solution' will pan out positively in the long run. Advancing a two-state solution will only see Israel fully eradicate Palestine, and then we'll all be made to sit there like there's not a nazi ethnostate festering on the face of the earth again. I know they've got a whole non-intervention thing going on; but the only solution to Palestine's current predicament that sees them still existent in twenty years time is arms and reinforcements.
Otherwise, a day will come when someone asks if a person's ever heard of Palestine, and the global answer resounding around the world will be 'no'.
If this is part of a larger strategy then it could make sense, but on its face the two state "solution" is liberalism. There can be no placating settler colonialism.
I think China is making a longer-term play, though. This is an opening salvo, not the whole strategy.
The occupation of Palestine is a problem on many levels. I'm not sure China has the ability to address all of them. My guess is they think if they can at least bring about an end to the violence that Southwest Asia will be better off and will steadily gravitate away from the west.
Im not sure it can work without addressing the nature of the occupation, which would potentially be an existential threat to all of the explicit settler colonial states, and even some post colonial states. Not to mention the political and military ties that make it such a dangerous issue.
It's a can of worms that China likley feels compelled to address, but is not prepared for the consequences of letting all the worms loose. With new developments in the global human system we may see these things become either easier or harder to address. Let's hope it gets easier. I know critics of the occupation seem more numerous than a decade ago so maybe that is a good sign. Hopefully when change does come, it is change for the better. I doubt a two state solution, or peace talks, will do any good by themselves but the fact that a leading nation wants to address the issue is certainly a better direction.
Whatever comes out of it will surely have a noticeable impact on the status quo. The Chinese state wouldn't bother with this if they were confident that it's a waste of time.
Ultra based