Mozilla officially opposes Web Enviroment Integrity API (DRM for web pages proposal from Google)
Request for Position: Web Environment Integrity API · Issue #852 · mozilla/standards-positions
Extremely common Firefox W
Stop using chrome. Absolute cancer of a browser
Chrome is fine. It's Google what's evil.
Chrome IS Google.
Chrome is a chip off the old block, in addition to just being the worse browser anyway.
@Llewellyn @ilovecarrotjuice Chrome is in now way fine....
You could say the exact same thing about YouTube and it'd be just as wrong.
Yes, agree
Even if I go along that line of thought, few years ago when I was using Chrome it started scanning my computer without any notice, causing the fan to run hard.
I stopped using that creepy POS immediately and switched to Firefox. Never again a browser can just make a decision to scan my computer to "protect" me from whatever.
If this DRM can force you to use Chromium to display a webpage or content, that would be the most anticompetitive thing in recent times, and would absolutely not fly.
That's why they want to make it a web standard, so they can just blame Firefox and others for not following the standard and avoid EU fines.
That's what Microsoft did with their office document standard.
Yeah, the sad thing here is that if Apple comply, it will basically become a standard and there's nothing that Firefox or anything else can do about it. If they can get it on iPhone, it's game over. Half the web will be blocked unless you agree to see adverts.
I doubt the EU would buy that.
Good thing Google is not a recognized standards body
I have limited understanding of the technical side of this issue, but based on this comment, this sounds like a brilliant move by Google - Don't like the rules of the game, change the game...
Edit: for clarification, this comment was very tongue in cheek - I don't support Google, this was just an acknowledgement of a smart business play.
Gj mozilla
Can someone explain to me the google API and DRM situation in stupid people terms? I’m stupidly tech illiterate but I know that this is a big deal and I would like to understand
Sure thing. With this current proposal, when you visit a website, the site asks your browser if you're willing to display it as intended, basically with all and any adverts. If the answer is no, then you can't see the content, if the answer is yes, then you're likely using Chrome or a Chromium based browser and Google can guarantee more ad impressions, because they're first and foremost an advert selling company.
I may not be 100% right, as I haven't looked at it in detail, but I think it's even a bit more than that. Since the way that's proven is by the browser vendor signing the request (I assume with an HTTP header or something), you could also verify it's from a specific vendor. So even if Mozilla says, yes, we'll display your ads, a website could still lock down to Chrome. It would probably also significantly hamper new browsers, and browsers with a security/anti-ad focus, as they won't be recognised by major websites that use the new protocol until they have market share, which they won't get if they don't have access to major websites.
Thanks so much, I understand now. God, is that a shitty move for Google to pull
Why can't your browser lie and say "yes of course I'm displaying everything my fingers definitely aren't crossed behind my back"?
What about replying yes, then blocking ads?
I bet you heard about safetynet on android devices. It is a service that checks if you run a genuine licensed not-modified version of android. If not - app developer can just restrict you access to the app. It is mostly used by banking apps, but there're many examples of not security critical apps utilize this.
Google wants to do the same but for browsers and websites. If you run firefox or modified chrome or use adblocks: youtube, twitter, etc. would be able to detect it and can restrict access to the website.
if they dont like your browser you cant view the site , ultimately its gonna be google who will be deciding what conditions your browser has to fulfill to be approved and the big one they wont say outright is adblockers , if you have an adblocker they will not allow you to veiw the site
They try to present it as "detecting abuse", but it's literally just "allow servers to block non-verified browers"(in other words google blocking access to their services for non-chrome users(the people proposing it work for google)).
And as always these types of asshats always shit all over anyone using accessbility tools(or don't even consider them in the first place, which amounts to the same thing).
pretty much yes to keys and hashes. Just think HDCP and HDMI
That said, I imagine it'll have to be easier to hack software that isn't embedded in hardware. but it's also easier to issue revocation lists when you don't have to worry about bricking everyone's hardware. So I have no idea which way that balance tilts.
Very much the latter.
"Listen, if we didn't think about it, it's clearly not important."
People ask me why I use Firefox when other products hace better features. This is the reason. This is the only feature I want: A fundation that helps and understands the user Thanks for all Mozilla.
Have slowly been switching to Firefox for a couple of months, but the DRM proposal has gotten me to fully switch.
Based and actual freedom pilled
Fucking US and all their shitty companies. literally a big FU
same feel man: too much american shitty companies (especilaly software companies)
I still don't get where this proposal originated. It looks like a random user, what's their connection to Google and why do we believe it's even under consideration by the organisation?
Also, <3 ff
No organisations put things through in giant blazing neon letters. One employee quietly pushes a bit, another a different bit and ten bits later we're all like, WTF?
Google has been trying to ensure they can serve everyone ads for a while. There's a reason the author of uBlock clearly states that the Chrome version isn't as good.
You get to Google pretty quickly by following links. If you look at the top of the linked issue, it links to a few things owned by Rupert Ben Wiser. If you follow the explainer link, you get this list of authors:
Authors: Ben Wiser (Google) Borbala Benko (Google) Philipp Pfeiffenberger (Google) Sergey Kataev (Google)
And in the repo, he says it's being prototyped in Chromium.
That's all written by him though, so I guess he could just be lying and making up names. So I tried looking up his name, to see if he's listed anywhere as a Google employee, but the best I could find is he's listed as a Google employee since 2022 on Facebook and LinkedIn. And he doesn't have much on his Github. (I kinda feel a little stalkery now... Don't harass anyone please). So either this is an elaborate, very late, April fool's or he's probably the fall guy for whatever exec actually thought this up.
I wasn't really doubting that he was a Google employee, rather more questioning whether the corporation (bare in mind it's huge) is aware of his efforts and this is on their immediate roadmap. It could just be a bunch of employees trying something about/proposing it internally and it might get shot down.
But I take the other commenter's point that this is how it begins
Def not a random user, it came from a committee. There's an attendees list and meeting notes attached to it if you click around a bit
That's as true as it is irrelevant. I don't think I've heard anyone say chrome isn't a great browser or chromium isn't good - it's the control Google has over it that everyone has a problem with
People definitely do say those things. They are terrible memory hogs compared to other WebKit alternatives
If I'm still using degoogled chromium.. Am I still supporting Google? :(
It can't just be for the server - it also needs to be per-community or you still get a very homogeneous feed
And you need an algorithm that can balance that not just for 1 site, but do it dynamically for each site
We'll get there, but it's one of those issues that keeps getting more and more complex the longer you work on it
cool, now we need a voice that hasnt lost all its weight years ag
Mozilla is only as strong as the community. In recent years it's been like a red Panda backed in a corner and tried everything to get offset the contribution of Google. But rather than focus on money, it should've focused on community. No matter how many bucks Mozilla chases, it will never match what Google contributes. But no matter how much Google pays Mozilla, it should pale in comparison to the value of community contributions. Sadly Mozilla only value code contributions, not realising that pull requests come thicker and faster with real community engagement. They hired a bunch of people that don't care for the community and as such community engagement dwindled.
while i must agree on community portion (i personally dont partake) even the money contribution is but a wet fart
What google pays mozilla for their search engine deal: 450 million
What google pays apple for the same deal: 15 billion by the time google made this deal mozilla had lost their voice
as much as i hate anything google (i use firefox myself), mozilla lost most of its power to make a compelling argument and the community or rather the people who jumped on the google wagon are very much just as much t blame as google itself
I feel like I've been forced to switch a lot of my default applications lately based on shitty decisions from tone deaf companies. I guess I'm going to move from Brave to Firefox finally.
Made the switch recently myself and can never look back. Being able to install custom add-ons on mobile is a huge plus to me
Never heard anything bad about brave privacy, you got sources?
Brave is also associated with Peter Thiel and if there is one person to get the title of Evil Tech Bro, it's him.
Why did you chose Brave to begin with? Serious question, not being snarky. I tried it for a day and it just didn't compete with Firefox + uBlock Origin in any meaningful way. I don't see the appeal of bundling advanced security and filtering tools with the browser, it's better if they're separate entities, keeps everyone honest.
I've taught multiple people in my life to use brave. The vast majority of end users simply can't be bothered to install a plugin or understand how to manage it when a site breaks. Brave makes it just a little more intuitive for them and means less IT calls for me. Firefox with ublock is what I personally use. Brave is what my family uses.
Moving browsers used to be moved the webpages now....it's a massive deal now.