Thousands of European flights reportedly affected by suspected Russian jamming
Thousands of European flights reportedly affected by suspected Russian jamming
I just want to note here that airliners do not rely solely on GPS for navigation, in fact GPS is usually just one form of backup for navigation instructions received from air traffic controllers.
That's only true around landing and takeoff. For the most part their navigation relies on hybridized data from their inertial, air data and GPS, with several redundancies in place for bad readings and cumulative errors. Among all of this autonomous measurement apparatus, the GPS is the only part that doesn't require numeric integration from speed or acceleration data to yield a position reading, and thus it is the only one that doesn't drift over time. It's actually fairly important, and it's why using the gnss jammers you can find on amazon is super illegal
Among all of this autonomous measurement apparatus, the GPS is the only part that doesn’t require numeric integration from speed or acceleration data to yield a position reading
My point is that in the airspace we're talking about, GPS is not the only source of accurate positional information. ATC radars and transponders can and do provide reliable position information all over that area, and it is ATC that's responsible for routing and separation in those specific airspaces, not the pilots. ADS-B does rely on GPS, that's true, so if there was a complete outage of GPS in an area, that might mean delays due to additional separation requirements, as ATC won't get accurate secondary information back from the airliners' GPS units.
All I'm saying is that while losing GPS would be a bother, European flight control won't start losing airliners and as a pilot you won't end up in Malmö instead of Helsinki just because GPS is down. Worst case scenario is congestion and delays at the destination airport, and possible diversions because of that.
Kalingrad gonna kalingrad.
Have they not renamed it to Putingrad yet?
This affects particularly small airfields that don't have tower operations. Because they rely on GPS-based systems. The larger airports have backup systems in place.
I'm not entirely sure what you are talking about, but most backup systems are Plane based.
GPS is mostly used for something called RNAV, however, RNAV can work without GPS. RNP approaches need GPS, but all airports (regardless how small, because without it would only be an airfield) have different approaches for both pilots and ground personnel to choose from. GPS always has the possibility to fail, for the simple fact that the US military can just turn if the civilian frequencies. GPS is more or less an addition and not a crucial system (except for GPWS - while most planes have radar altimeters, they can't react fast enough in some cases)
For those interested, here's a Video where GPS gets jammed and there's an explanation on what they do and what happens, when it gets spoofed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dG_Whxzdkk
Sounds more like an Israeli tactic
This has been happening on and off for months in Lebanon, the pilots have all been landing without GPS lately in case it cuts out again while they’re mid-landing. Utter chaos when it first happened, delivery drivers especially were very lost, and people in general had a tough time dealing with the loss of GPS. We don’t have a rigorous address system so sending locations to each other’s phones is really important here.
I think “sounds more like” is a weird thing to say though for this kind of thing
Whys it a weird thing to say, they've been known to do it
Russia has been accused of jamming GPS signals in nearby countries such as Finland as far back as the 2010s,
Reading is hard.
Do your handlers even allow you to call it war?
War and peace aren't that simple. Russia already shot a passenger plane down and nothing happened.
They already shot down a civilian plane in 2014, killing hundreds of people, including many citizens of NATO countries
Seems they got form. In 1983, they also shot down a civilian Boeing 747.
Possibly, but also keep in mind article five doesn't say that any hostile act leads to automatic full scale war in response:
Emphasis on "such action as it deems necessary," meaning a country can individually respond with its own discretion on what it thinks is a proportional response. Though in practice any response and individual contributions would be heavily negotiated within NATO. Theoretically a country could say it deems no action necessary even if article five was invoked. Just another reason why electing pro Russian leaders like Trump, Orban, or now Fico in Slovakia are dangerous and threaten the existence of NATO, even if they don't technically leave NATO.
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_110496.htm
It's particularly tough with kalingrad because the proportional response is bombing their jammers and air defenses, but kalingrad has a whole metric shit ton of air defenses, a large stockpile of nuclear weapons, and support against such an attack would overfly poland so even that has a very high chance of leading to nuclear war.
So, first off. There is no reason for GPS jamming to cause a crash. Modern airliners have other ways to navigate.
Now it is possible to target a single aircraft with GPS "spoofing" potentially, but both GPS and Galileo have ways round this (Navigation Message Authentication). I would like to think aircraft navigation systems should be using this system. But, even if not, I'd bet it's still quite hard to reliably spoof a specific location to a moving aircraft.
All (proper) Airlines have a simple solution for that, they just turn off GPS. Most of the time the ADIRS/ADIRU (bit too much to explain what it is here, the Wiki article is pretty good) does it automatically as well.
For those interested, here's a Video where GPS gets jammed and there's an explanation on what they do and what happens, when it gets spoofed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dG_Whxzdkk
I had a look on the Galileo website and wiki page because you don't hear about it much. Anyway it looks like the secure version isn't open to businesses though maybe an exception for airlines would be prudent.
Still though, planes flew long before GPS was a thing and were fine so should be fine today too. GPS was only released to the public after the USSR shot down a passenger plane that had gone off course.
MH17 was shot down by a Russian Buk system given to the separatists, and likely with polite green ‘advisors’ nearby to set up and operate the SAM. Once they realized their fuckup they rushed it across the Donbas and back to Russia, but it was spotted several times en route both ways.
If that didn’t count, why would much harder to prove jamming trigger A5? NATO forces (yes, even Poland) are not risking escalation on their territory, even if that means Russian helicopters and cruise missiles can ‘temporarily get lost’ in NATO airspace.
Article 5 is, ultimately, triggered by action within the EU. If Europeans want to treat this as another Boeing nosedive rather than a military action, they'll wave it away.
As it stands, Vlad has been growing support within Southern European parliaments - Italy, Greece, France, Spain - and that might make invoking Article 5 more difficult than pointing at a downed airliner and proclaiming "Russia did this".
What are you expecting NATO to do? Going to Wartm over one measly airliner and a few 10's of random people isn't an option here and all the parties understand that. Are you willing to see and be a part of the millions of deaths that the Wartm would bring? Because you know SOMEONE would push the Buttontm and Armageddon would happen.
Obligatory Tom Lehrer: [(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrbv40ENU_o)]
Let's call it super special military operation
Then we wouldn't need to violate trade marks
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