The Cases Against Trump: A Guide
The Cases Against Trump: A Guide
Fraud. Hush money. Election subversion. Mar-a-Lago documents. One place to keep track of the presidential candidate’s legal troubles.
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Here's what I'm still struggling to grasp:
If you plan a robbery and you're the getaway driver and your partner inside the building kills someone, both of you get charged with murder. Every person who was behind the barricades on January 6 and helped plan the coup online was committing the same crime and people died. Why aren't they all being charged with murder?
Why aren't they all being charged with murder?
It's probably something to do with how much coordination and planning go into the crime, and how closely associated these perpetraitors were.
> If you plan a robbery and you’re the getaway driver and your partner inside the building kills someone, both of you get charged with murder. Every person who was behind the barricades on January 6 and helped plan the coup online was committing the same crime and people died. Why aren’t they all being charged with murder?
because they werent planning a coup or committing a crime. i know this is really hard for liberals to understand but the people who stormed the capitol that day are patriots.
this isn't to say i agree with them. i abhor patriots. but these people believe the constitution is good, and america is good, and they got cheated. they are wrong on all three counts. but they're not criminals and it wasn't a coup.
Tell me more oh great troll.
calling me names doesn't change the truth of anything i've said.
Saying it’s true doesn’t make it so.
if you can refute it, please do.
Refute that they aren’t criminals and are just patriots? Their actions do that. They came prepared to take hostages. They came to cause wanton destruction. They assaulted police, broke down barriers, and threatened to kill people.
Patriots. Pfft. Pawns at least and conspirators and traitors at worst.
Not like you are actually here for discourse.
>They came prepared to take hostages.
some people might have. there is no way such a conspiracy was know to all the people in the crowd though, or even all those who entered the building.
If you were following the Proud Boys without knowing they are a domestic terrorist organization acting at Trump's command then you were wilfully turning a blind eye since 2016. Everyone that showed up to Trump's rally was on board with the racism and violence displayed by all these groups for 4 years, and the idea of overturning the election (calling it "stop the steal" doesn't change its intent).
some people just aren't very online, especially the older folks. even those who had some awareness that proudboys exists may not have had any inkling they were there.
if they really believed the election was stolen, then they thought the other side were the ones overturning the election.
it recently came out that the "2000 mules" movie is not based on provable evidence, but if you saw it and were alreday primed to think they were telling the truth, ending up at j6 makes you a victim of a fraud, not an insurrectionist.
edit: that movie came out after j6, but the group who did all the lying has been around since 2k9 and they spread this kind of nonsense all the time.
>Pawns
yea. their patriotism made them pawns.
> They assaulted police, broke down barriers, and threatened to kill people.
most of the people in the crowd did none of that, and it surpasses reason to suppose that they chose to be a part of such a crowd with premeditation.
>Not like you are actually here for discourse.
i answered a question. i am not here to watch you grandstand, though.
Spewing a bunch of lies isn't really answering a question though.
if you asked those people if they were insurrectionists or if they were patriots, what do you think they would say?
if you told them they broke the law, do you think theyd say "oh, i knew that when i did it"? i don't.
and none of that is a lie.
That's not how logic works. But who cares because you live in an alternate reality. Bye.
it is exactly how it works, but if this comment means i'm blocked, then thank god.
Yes, but actually no.
Sorry to disappoint you.
Insufficient evidence supports the existence of one or more gods.
>Insufficient evidence supports the existence of one or more gods.
i don't know what you're saying here, but i thought you blocked me. can i help you find the button?
But they did commit crimes. There is a list of crimes in this article: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_proceedings_in_the_January_6_United_States_Capitol_attack#:~:text=Other charges include assault on,criminal indictments are under seal.
Examples of crimes include
- Entering Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon
- Obstruction of an Official Proceeding
since there have been laws, there have been criminals.
i can concede that some of their conduct violated laws, but i disagree with doing very little of it. i don't agree with the people or their motives, but i think it's fine to walk through the peoples house and be rowdy.
In the civil war, both sides thought they were patriots. Clearly they both were not correct.
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. In the case of Jan 6th, the whole point was to subvert the legally voted president and install a president who was not legally elected.
If you supported the candidate, you might agree with them being president but subverting democracy and the process is the issue. That's a coup.
That's the part the right misses. It's not a case of bad luck let's use all means to correct it. It's subverting the whole legal and democratic system.
It's dangerous for all of our freedoms. People not having a strong opinions hat trump should be in jail is crazy to anyone paying attention.
locking people in cages is bad.
laws are bad.
but I don't expect liberals to agree with me any more than I expect Republicans.
Laws are bad. Lol
You may have saved us all the bother and just told us you don't understand how society works. Even libertarians understand that you need laws to codify their impractical beliefs.
baby, i'm an anarchist
Finally, we agree.
Bro, anarchists aren't calling Trumpers "patriots." Dude's just lying.
Now, ask a real anarchist if they'd be mad a different kind of angry mob would try to execute Congress for different reasons, not because they lost an election, maybe we're talking.
No one that showed up to Trump's rally on J6 or went to the capital afterward arrived in DC for a bake sale, meet and greet, speed dating or any other such thing. They arrived there to make Trump president any way they could, including insurrection. They may not have put "Do a coup/insurrection" on their daily to do lists but even the densest dullard on J6 knew that was the endgame.
The only patriots on J6 were those capital police who did their best to stop the insurrectionists, and thankfully succeeded. Those are the patriots. To twist, whitewash or rebrand the insurrectionists as "misguided patriots just trying to be good Americans" is disgusting.
Now these "patriots", as you want to call them, are floating this red Caesar crap and making Trump dictator of America. They want to end the last vestiges of democracy in America and you to call them "patriots".
It is honestly hard to tell if you are a troll, idiot, poor excuse for a propagandist or all three. Regardless your opion isn't just wrong it's shit.
>They arrived there to make Trump president any way they could, including insurrection. They may not have put “Do a coup/insurrection” on their daily to do lists but even the densest dullard on J6 knew that was the endgame.
what is your evidence for this?
Going to an event called “Stop the Steal” and then everything that ensued
that's not evidence of a premeditated coup or insurrection. it isn't even evidence that they considered it a possibility.
> It is honestly hard to tell if you are a troll, idiot, poor excuse for a propagandist or all three
personal attacks are uncivil
fuck the police
>The only patriots on J6 were those capital police who did their best to stop the insurrectionists, and thankfully succeeded.
>Pretty sure my hate meter is maxed for cops
pick one
No. When you storm the capital, it's an attempted coup. What else could it possibly be? A sudden use of threats and actual violence to seize power.
Of course some coups might be justified, sure sure, that's a value judgement. And still, the words all mean what they ordinarily mean.
you can't think that thet geriatrics taking pictures of the statues were part of a serious coup.
They believe the constitution is good the same way evangelicals believe in following the Bible.
It’s a buffet that they can pick and choose from to find justification for their own internal biases to impose on others while ignoring the parts that would cause them to become better people.
maybe. i think everyone sort of does that. i've decided to just not treat it as anything other than a scrap of paper, but sometimes i think it's pithy to quote parts of it.
There’s a bit of a difference though between:
“I like cheeseburgers.” And “Maybe we ought to kill a couple legislators if we don’t get our way.”
I could be wrong though.
no one credibly tried to kill any legislators tho.
and some of the rhetoric i've seen about legislators who support the j6ers indicate that this isn't a matter of one side feeling absolutely justified an any actions they think are necessary to deal with traitors, if you catch my drift.
cheeseburgers aren't in the constitution, but there is a bit about the right of the people to keep and bear arms that a lot of democrats seem to overlook, and of course the entire 9th and 10th amendment get trampled pretty often. i think the 4th and 5th amendments are just kept around for posterity. even the enumerated powers of congress are ignored when the president wants to start a war.
what i'm saying is that the accusation of picking and choosing is correct, but that doesn't disqualify them as patriots.
But they are in the Bible, hence my point. Weird how the recent the current interpretation of the second amendment is about the unfettered rights of arms and acceptable places. That wasn’t held up when tried closer to when the people who wrote it were still living.
frankly, i don't believe in rights at all, and i think the whole sham that anyone actually governs according to the document ought to be exposed for what it is, so i don't actually care about the text. i'm saying that everyone who claims to care about it picks and chooses.
frankly, i don't believe in rights at all
Weird boldly coming out with a pro slavery, anti bodily autonomy stance in public on the internet in the year of our lord 2024. But here we are…
I think you ended up so open minded your brain must have fallen out 50 miles back.
i'm not pro-slavery. i just think it's wrong without the fiction of rights. i think people ought to have bodily autonomy. i don't need to invoke rights.