George Carlin Estate Files Lawsuit Against Group Behind AI-Generated Stand-Up Special: ‘A Casual Theft of a Great American Artist’s Work’
George Carlin Estate Files Lawsuit Against Group Behind AI-Generated Stand-Up Special: ‘A Casual Theft of a Great American Artist’s Work’
George Carlin's estate has filed a lawsuit against the creators behind an AI-generated comedy special featuring a recreation of the comedian's voice.
George Carlin Estate Files Lawsuit Against Group Behind AI-Generated Stand-Up Special: ‘A Casual Theft of a Great American Artist’s Work’::George Carlin's estate has filed a lawsuit against the creators behind an AI-generated comedy special featuring a recreation of the comedian's voice.
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This case is not just about AI, it’s about the humans that use AI to violate the law, infringe on intellectual property rights and flout common decency.”
Well put.
Eh…. I don’t know that I can agree with this.
I understand the intent behind it, but this specific instance is legitimately in parallel with impersonators, or satire. Hear me out.
They are impersonating his voice, using new content in his style, and make no claim to be legitimate.
So this comes down to “this is in bad taste” which, while I can understand and might even agree with… isn’t illegal.
The only novel concept in this, is that “scary tech” was used. There was no fraud, there was no IP violation, and no defamation. Where is the legal standing?
They trained the AI on his material. That's theft of IP without a license or agreement.
So any human comedian listening and learning from other comedians is also STEALING the intellectual PROPERTY of them? That is very incendiary language btw.
Morally this imho comes down to a workers right issue. So there are legitimate reasons to argue that AI should not take our jobs. A kind of socialist market protection act.
But to use intellectual property in this case is just asking to make anything "Disney like" to be treated as copyright by Disney.
PS: BTW actually listen to the video https://youtu.be/2kONMe7YnO8 it is eerily good.
Presumably they paid to see the show each time they wanted to go learn from him. Also, it's extremely poor form to copy jokes. Learning the art of telling jokes like using callbacks wouldn't require watching solely one comedian either.
No matter how much they say this isn't Carlin, the entire selling premise here is that it's Carlin.
The AI didn't copy jokes, it learned how to generate jokes just like Carlin. The point of this impersonation for me is to be able to actually compare it to Carin, as a benchmark.
It seems also clear that while this is mediocre at best, the next versions of AI will become as good as, and then better than Carlin. And then better than any human comedian could ever be. Might take a while but no doubt in my mind we'll get there sooner than later. So then they'll use artificial persona that become brands and are fully owned by corporation.
And they'll not just be insanely funny, they'll also become incredibly good at propaganda and reprogramming human minds to their master's agenda. Now a human entertainer at least has to have some humanity.
My point is that IP law is the WORST thing you can use to try to limit AIs. The hurt feelings or lost moneys of Carlin's heirs or other corporations are so utterly irrelevant in regards to the repercussions of this issue.
Machines aren't people. Machines don't learn. Machines copy data, manipulate and replicate it. That is copyright infringement. The laws for Machine duplication don't apply to human learning.
Machines don’t learn.
It's called https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_learning
That they actually learned to do creative writing is the shocking thing. Mediocre so far, but they will improve. And denial won't help.
I teared up listening to this special. It was like he was still alive. A lot of good material and definitely in his spirit. People who want to lock up our culture behind paywalls can get bent.
No don't you understand. If we don't enforce copyright laws we won't get a 19th Fast and the Furious movie.
"That use AI to violate the law"
Watch out impressionists. If you get too good you might become a lawbreaker. The AI hysteria is beyond absurd.
AI hysteria
This is the concise way of putting it that I've been missing.
Using AI to do something that actually intelligent beings already legally do, like impressions and parody (with disclaimers and all that), isn't suddenly theft or stealing because AI was used in the process. I'm really disappointed in the Lemmy community for buying into all this bs
Not trying to be glib but
low effort
That's another way.
I'll concede that there is some skill involved in generating some this content, but nowhere near what the humans it purports to replace. And seemingly less and less skill or even intent is required with each advancement. It's conceivable that someone could mimic real artistic output without actually caring about it.
Not trying to be glib but
Not at all, I think this is the most valid take in the whole thread.
Personally I don't think automating the process should have all that much of an effect on whether or not it infringes on copyright, but I definitely see where you're coming from. I can see that being a big point of contention in courts if/when they try to sort this stuff out.
Impressionists have nothing to do with this.
If I scraped all Beyonce's videos, cut it up and join it into another video, and called it "Beyonce: resurrected", I'm not doing am impression. I'm stealing someone's work and likeness for commercial purposes.
Are you sad that your garbage generator is just a plagiarism machine?
Actually cutting it up into another video makes it transformative and it's protected under the DMCA. Thank you for proving you don't know what you're talking about. Take care.
Sure mate. You try selling a copy of it.
Likewise. You're either too dumb or stubborn to even google what "transformative work" is.
Typical "AI" techbro.
You try selling a copy of it.
I really want to drill this home, search YTP (YouTube Poop) on YouTube. The volume of evidence against your claim is enormous.
"evidence"
Take a Taylor Swift song. Sing on top of it. Try selling it with the name "Taylor Swift - I'm Not Dead"
You can sell it as "My garbage cover remix of Taylor Swift's song", but you cannot make an impression that this originated from Taylor Swift.
Same thing with Carlin, Beyonce, etc.
It is using the name and identical appearance of Carlin, to appear as if Carlin was speaking himself. A person who cannot read would not be able to differentiate. It is plagiarism and malicious copyright infringement.
Take a Taylor Swift song. Sing on top of it.
We've shifted the goalpost from splicing together her entire discography to singing on top of a song. Neither of which is what AI does, or what that channel did with Carlin's work.
A person who cannot read would not be able to differentiate
A person who can't read or hear. If you can't understand the narrator telling you for nearly a full minute that this is not George Carlin's work then you can't understand the next hour of the video that uses his voice anyways.
I'm trying to dumb down the problem so we can have a conversation. I am not saying it is what "AI" is doing.
I've said this elsewhere, a sticky note with a "no cppyroght infringement intended lol" is absolutely worthless.
Impressionists have nothing to do with this. If I scraped all Beyonce's videos, cut it up and join it into another video, and called it "Beyonce: resurrected", I'm not doing am impression. I'm stealing someone's work and likeness for commercial purposes. Are you sad that your garbage generator is just a plagiarism machine?
Actually cutting it up into another video makes it transformative and it's protected under the DMCA. Thank you for proving you don't know what you're talking about. Take care.
Sure mate. You try selling a copy of it. Likewise. You're either too dumb or stubborn to even google what "transformative work" is. Typical "AI" techbro.
Then I point you to the mountains of monetized, copyrighted and most importantly transformative YTP videos... and all of the sudden your new example is
Take a Taylor Swift song. Sing on top of it. Try selling it with the name "Taylor Swift - I'm Not Dead"
Which is a copyright violation, and still not how the Carlin vid was made. But yeah...not shifting goalposts.
Making your examples more irrelevant and "dumbed down" isn't going to convince anyone. But maybe you're not even trying to convince anyone. If you want to make a convincing argument, tone down the vitriol and seething, and just talk about how this vid was actually made and how this actually constitutes a copyright violation.
YTP is satire. It is transformative. Christ, I'm not going to repeat myself over and over. If you don't comprehend, you don't comprehend. IDGAF.
The fact is, the original video is taken private. So there's the concousion. Bye.
Sold for 71 million. Which if that were people would be more than the UK.
Your comment reads like ChatGPT generated garbage.
You must be a hit at parties.
Is that what you do in parties? Interrupt people's discussions with completely unrelated nonsense?
It's possible to get away with quite a lot under transformative use even when it's commercial, consider Cariou v. Prince for example: https://www.artnews.com/art-in-america/features/landmark-copyright-lawsuit-cariou-v-prince-is-settled-59702/
That is transformative work. Remixes are tranaformative work. Impersonations are transformative work.
Using a source and shuffling it around, then repackaging it as "from the same source" is not transformative work. It's copyright infringement.
I think it'd be entirely plausible to argue that, while transformative, current generative AI usage often falls short on the other fair use factors.
I don't really see how it can be argued that the linked example - relatively minor edits to a photograph - are more transformative than generative AI models. What is your criteria here?
Take a Nike shoe. Draw a large dick on the shoe. Try selling it as a Nike Shoe.
Vs.
Take a Nike Shoe. Draw a large dick on the shoe. Sell it as a piece of art. (As commentary on capitalism, etc)
Do you feel that one is copyright infringement and the other is a piece of transformative work?
Neither example is copyright infringement. The first-sale doctrine allows secondary markets - you are fine by copyright to sell your bedicked shoes to someone.
cut it up and join it into another video
If you think this is what AI is doing I recommend looking more into how generative AI actually works. Even if that was what it did, as long as the ones publishing the work are not claiming or leading people to believe that this is Beyonce's work, then who cares? Should the entire genre of YouTube Poops be paying royalties to all the commercials and politicians they sample and splice?
No, this is not (and never was) how copyright works, nor how it should work.
If you take a second to read the article, you'll knotice that the title of the supposed standup is literally "George Carlin".
The title is "George Carlin: I'm Glad I'm Dead (2024)" and it talks about his own death. Even if someone believes in communication beyond the grave to the extent that they could still mistake it as really being George Carlin, it's immediately explained as AI in the opening segment of the video.
A sticky note is not a legal disclaimer, nor it has any legal value. It's like writing a "disclaimer" about privacy on your facebook wall. There are many works that talk about death, resurrection, being undead, etc. Carlin being dead has nothing to do with the title being an obvious infringement.
A sticky note is not a legal disclaimer
Have you watched the video? It's a thousand times more obvious than any legal disclaimer I've ever seen. They are not in any way hiding the fact that it is using AI.
There are many works that talk about death, resurrection, being undead, etc.
Talking about death in the abstract is entirely possible while you're still alive. Creating material ~two decades after your own death about your death and events that happened since then, less so.
has nothing to do with the title being an obvious infringement.
Copyright doesn't protect names or titles.
The Beatles have just officially released a song with their dead singer's voice.
No? Go to Spotify and try uploading a track as Michael Jackson, see if copyright "doesn't protect names or titles."
The Beatles have just officially released a song with their dead singer’s voice.
Lennon's vocals were recorded before his death, and thus aren't about his own death and events occurring after it.
No?
To quote the US Copyright office:
Words and short phrases, such as names, titles, and slogans, are uncopyrightable because they contain
an insufficient amount of authorship. The Office will not register individual words or brief combina-
tions of words, even if the word or short phrase is novel, distinctive, or lends itself to a play on words.
Examples of names, titles, or short phrases that do not contain a sufficient amount of creativity
to support a claim in copyright include
The name of an individual (including pseudonyms, pen names, or stage names)
[...]Go to Spotify and try uploading a track as Michael Jackson, see if copyright “doesn’t protect names or titles.”
I don't think Spotify allows individuals, as opposed to music distributors, to upload tracks at all - but more importantly their policies on impersonation are not what defines copyright.
It really was good material and I liked the alluding that AI was as close to heaven as you can get. Too bad it has been taken down. Locking our culture up is a disservice to everyone who has ever existed.
The video spends nearly a full minute telling you that the channel is dedicated solely to AI content, and that this is not the work of George Carlin. It fills the entire screen with "THIS IS NOT GEORGE CARLIN" several times as the words are spoken by the narrator.
As valid as uploading a copyrighted song to Youtube and saying "No copyright infringement intended" in the description.
A complete false equivalence. Just because improper disclaimers exist, doesn't mean there aren't legitimate reasons to use them. Impersonation requires intent, and a disclaimer is an explicit way to make it clear that they are not attempting to do that, and to explicitly make it clear to viewers who might have misunderstood. It's why South Park has such a text too at the start of every episode. It's a rather fool proof way to illegitimize any accusation of impersonation.
The video is now private so I can't check, but I've read that the disclaimer stated that it was an impersonation.
That's not why south park had that "disclaimer". South Park doesn't need it, it's a parody.
You're right, South Park doesnt need it either. But a disclaimer removes all doubt. The video doesnt need a disclaimer either, but they made it anyways to remove all doubt. And no, they disclaimed any notion that they are George Carlin. Admitting to a crime in a disclaimer is not what it said, that much should be obvious.
Here's the summary for the wikipedia article you mentioned in your comment:
A disclaimer is generally any statement intended to specify or delimit the scope of rights and obligations that may be exercised and enforced by parties in a legally recognized relationship. In contrast to other terms for legally operative language, the term disclaimer usually implies situations that involve some level of uncertainty, waiver, or risk. A disclaimer may specify mutually agreed and privately arranged terms and conditions as part of a contract; or may specify warnings or expectations to the general public (or some other class of persons) in order to fulfill a duty of care owed to prevent unreasonable risk of harm or injury. Some disclaimers are intended to limit exposure to damages after a harm or injury has already been suffered. Additionally, some kinds of disclaimers may represent a voluntary waiver of a right or obligation that may be owed to the disclaimant.
You're understimating what generative AI can do. I was shocked when I realized that GPT-3 was able to do creative writing, something that we thought would be out of reach after things like doing management and self driving cars. Turns out, creativity is what AI can actually do. Watch the video. This is like George Carlin but not using any of his material, instead creating something completely new in the style of George Carlin. They could have used the style and a slightly different voice, but they wanted to make a point here.
If your argument is that minds, be they artificial or human, are not allowed to learn from other peoples works then... well then that is a very immoral argument to make imho.
If you think that LLM has a "mind", there's no discussion with you, sorry.
That's not what I'm saying, What we currently have is more like the disembodied creative writing center of a brain, without memory or conscience but able to do creative writing. But it seems pretty clear now that we will have sentient artificial minds sooner than later.
And the last thing we need is to use intellectual "property" arguments to regulate this.
without memory or conscience
Me: hey chatgpt how many words were in your last response to me
Chatgpt: there were 79
Me: what is the approximate limit on your contextual window?
Chatgpt: The approximate limit on my contextual window is around 2048 tokens, which usually translates to around 1500 words, depending on the complexity and length of the words used. This limit affects how much text I can consider from previous interactions in a single conversation.
Wait did Beyoncé die?
Edit: no.
She still alive? Damn.
That title had me having to check though.
Again, video editing, plagiarism, and garbage generation have all always been possible. All AI did was make it easier.
That’s like being mad at matches because now anybody can make a fire, and by George, one of those fires could burn down an orphanage. But just forget about all the good things that fire can do like cook food or provide heat or forge steel or whatever else you use your fire for idk I’m not here to judge or kink shame you.
If the skills required are the justification for making AI bad, that’s cool. Let me just take away your GPS apps until you become a pro at operating a sextant.
No disagreement here. I'm using GPT for basic programming help.
Better tools, faster, skill bla bla bla. I couldn't give two shits about the contemporary garbage created. It's jut not interesting to me. It's like listening to someone about a dream they had.
"AI" isn't bad, it's the garbage that's being pushed as revolutionary. Nothing has changed. If you can't write a good poem, even if AI writes it for you, you still can't write a good poem. And that is what matters to me.
Any image generated by the garbage collecting machine using my input will never be better than my scribble on a piece of paper. Because it's just not "my".
That’s a much bigger discussion around licensing.
AIs are nothing without that the precious input that it learns from. That input comes from tons of different licenses and tons of different creators from tons of different countries and tons of different laws. You ironically need an AI lawyer to even start to sort it all out.
Thats kind of a significant issue, especially if you create something that years later, the AI later regurgitates a significant portion or obvious recreation of.
On your last point, for me, the output of an AI is the combination of its prompt, the inputs it has available to it (or at least the curation of said inputs), and the underlying code that combines it. If an individual or team of people create unique and novel art while being responsible for all three, I would say that deserves proper attribution and compensation where appropriate.
But for any schmuck just typing “alien with purpel boobs” in DALL-E is not an artist. I don’t care how many adjectives he uses to describe the nipples, or even if he fidgets with the lighting to accentuate the curls in her mane. I’m not even going to question why an alien species is assumed to be mammalian, even though that’s just patently absurd right off the bat. Like, seriously, the number if evolutionary dice rolls to get from self-replicating protein to a species that generates milk to feed its young is insane. The chances of that happening in two completely different environments is insane^2. None of that matters to me, because that person has nowhere near enough skin in the game to be considered a creator.