Euro bottles are so much better now
Euro bottles are so much better now
I know they're supposed to be good for the environment but... God I hate those caps.
I know they're supposed to be good for the environment but... God I hate those caps.
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I don't get it.
It stays open, you can drink from it, you can pour from it, you can pour into it.
What action does the cap staying attached prevent, warranting its detachment?
I'm seriously asking. I don't get it. What inconvenience?
Maybe your bottles are different, but the bottles here in Germany have a very short "leash" and are often connected to the right in two places, so it constantly pushes in your face when drinking.
If an actual problem would have been solved, I'd be fine with it, but it's just a pointless law which only exists to create the illusion of progress and shift blame onto consumers.
Rotate the bottle 90 degrees so the cap goes to the side of your face rather than mashing it into your nose.
...then it scratches my cheek.
Why is it so hard to understand that a useless piece of plastic in your face might be unpopular?
I guess because I've got used to it now and it's entirely a non-issue in my life, I wouldn't say it scratches my cheek at all.
If it means less microplastic in the sea, I'm all for it
And even that is dubious.
How many of the caps are actually reaching the ocean and is that actually a way to reduce that?
I mean, how about a European refund system? Works perfectly fine in Germany and actually makes recycling a bit easier?
These caps are empty gestures as I described above.
I can't see how attaching them wouldn't increase the rates at which they're recycled.
You can believe this was never a problem perhaps, but then you've got to wonder why the change was made—no one is gonna profit from the design of bottle caps changing, so what's the motive for the change if it's not a problem? Contrary to the somewhat common belief, politicians tend to try and not waste time on useless legislation.
A refund system costs money, this change basically doesn't.
It was implemented as a symbol. I described it above.
The entire idea, similar to the carbon footprint, are attempts by the fossil industry to shift responsibility away from them and towards consumers. We from BP and BASF would love to stop pollution, but you guys keep throwing away the bottle caps! So they lobby the European Parliament to enact such regulations, the Parliament can act like they actually did something and the industry can keep producing plastics.
Yes, other solutions would cost more money. But these solutions would have at least a realistic chance to change something.
Remember the straight cucumber regulation? That was demanded by the retail industry. So it's not like the EU doesn't enact regulations for some lobby groups.
And if you think these caps are doing anything, the fossil industry fooled you successfully.
Yes I completely understand the lobbying the fossil fuel industry does and the tactics they use.
This is not the only policy from the EU regarding climate change however. If it was, I'd be with you that it's absolutely not good enough.
No one is sat thinking we've solved climate change and plastic pollution by making plastic bottle lids slightly differently, and given this thread it clearly carries a negative sentiment. So it's a pretty bad symbolic gesture.
We currently have a problem with microplastics.
I fail to see how this change will not increase the rates at which the lids are recycled.
This change was basically free, so even if it only moves the needle slightly, it was a change worth making.
There's no silver bullet for fixing the problem, pretty much everything has to change, and this is just one of those many changes.
Ask yourself these simple questions: where is micro plastic coming from? And what would be a good lever to reduce that? Bottle caps are not the answer for any of that.
So the result is barely any change in the amount of plastic introduced in the environment, the real big sources (for example the plastic wrapper around the bottles, and around the pallets of bottles) are untouched, but people (like you) become complacent, because we added those cap straps after all!
Yes, reducing even a bit is helpful, but it's far from being free, because this exact bullshit makes people ignore the real problem. Your view is far too myopic.
where is micro plastic coming from?
Literally everywhere
And what would be a good lever to reduce that?
Many, many, many individual pieces of legislation
Bottle caps are not the answer for any of that.
If you've read what I've written, you would know I'm not saying that
So the result is barely any change in the amount of plastic introduced in the environment
Where it ends up is the most important thing
but people (like you) become complacent, because we added those cap straps after all!
Again, read. I, or anyone else reasonable in support of this, are not saying this is the silver bullet. It's one of the thousands of points of iterative improvement we need to make.
but it's far from being free
In terms of green legislation, this is literally as cheap as it gets
this exact bullshit makes people ignore the real problem. Your view is far too myopic.
You have clearly not comprehended my previous comments remotely correctly.
Less plastics on your streets, in your yards, and fields, is also an important goal
Then introduce a refund system. Has been proven to work in Germany for over 20 years.
And as I wrote in another comment already: these regulations are a distraction so that the real problems can be ignored. They are actively harmful.
If that's the biggest annoyance in your life, I want your life!
It's not, and it's disingenuous to imply that this is what I wrote.
You're building a straw man.
If you only have one annoyance big enough to complain about I want your life.
Many of the new bottle caps I encounter will actively push back into the closed position, meaning I have to keep them out of the way when pouring if I don't want to pour over the cap. Since I tend to encounter them on drink cartons rather than bottles, because I don't drink soda etc, it becomes even more annoying. Bottles you can turn whichever way, but drink cartons need to be kept at a certain angle for optimal pouring. Quite often the cap is in the way and there isn't really a nice place to put it.
This is even more frustrating because I never lost these caps anyway, I always threw them away with the packaging. I understand that it probably helps in the bigger picture, but for me personally it solves nothing and is incredibly annoying.
Edit: two examples
This one is fine, it snaps into a position that's handy and out of the way:
This one is very annoying. It'll stay in this position and requires constant force to keep out of this position. When opening or closing the packaging the attachment point also rotes, meaning it's always in the wrong place:
Funnily enough, I despise with every cell of my body the first cap. When opening the first time, it always create a mess by shooting liquid everywhere. And after that, it feels fo flimsy that it would break any second.
Hmmm yeah, now that you mention it I do remember a few occasions of launching soy milk throughout the kitchen. Still I prefer it over the second one though. After it's been opened once, it's much less in the way.
Wait, the Dutch Optimel brand doesn't have attached caps. I think? Or I just mindlessly rip the caps off so they are loose? It doesn't make any sense to have those be attached with an angle like that.
it's attached and no it doesn't make any sense and it sucks
The people complaining about that are mostly the same as the ones who complained that the masks were "suffocating" them during covid.
Oh shut the fuck up, that's not true at all. It can be annoying without it being some kind of nefarious political issue. What a cynical person you are.
That's not the case in Norway. We hate them equally. I hate it with a passion. Wore my mask dilligently without a fuss. Still do when I am sick and need to go to a shop.
I find it especially infuriating when driving a car. It is so hard getting it to seal properly one handed now.
The ones on the soda bottles are attached so closely to the ring that it makes it hard to put the cap back on. Because they are attached on one side, you always put the cap on at an angle which prevents you from screwing it closed. You have to pull the cap up a bit while closing to ensure it goes on straight. It’s a minor annoyance but half of the time it takes multiple attempts to put the cap back on.
On larger bottles when I pour into a glass the attached lid always swings round. And it’s awkward to hold it wwhile pouring.