"You're not supposed to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who says it"
"You're not supposed to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who says it"
Edited for legibility
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We have 2 far right fascist parties in America. That simple.
Disagree. Trump represents real fascism in the US, but US international policy under both parties has repeatedly supported fascism and authoritarianism abroad.
Democrats have enjoyed the aesthetics of egalitarianism domestically while contributing to the problem of authoritarianism abroad in service of their global ambitions, and that is the contradiction i'm pointing to.
Both sides are not the same, but they share important similarities that should absolutely be opposed.
I'm sorry. I read what you are saying, and cannot fathom how your brain survives those gymnastics without disintegrating.
"both parties has repeatedly supported fascism and authoritarianism"
Literally in your first sentence of your response, which is saying you disagree with "We have 2 far right fascist parties in America. That simple."
Cant make this shit up.
Acknowledging there is a distinction to be made between the parties is important if you want to be taken seriously.
There's a distinction to be made between convenient support of fascism abroad as a matter of suiting your interests and leveling that fascism against your own people. I don't shy away from that distinction, and it doesn't negate the critique being leveled against democrats that pardon themselves for that fascistic activity simply because they have a more pleasant appearance domestically.
No.
Fascism is fascism.
Fascism isn't a tool to be used when convenient for you. Fascism is bad.
If you participate in fascism, you are a fascist.
There's the fascism you conduct and there's the fascism you support.
Fascism isn't a tool to be used when convenient for you. Fascism is bad.
Well yea, I agree. Maybe we need like a rating system of fascism? Or maybe subtypes? Maybe Trump is fascism full-fat and democrats are fascism-lite? Even hell has 7 circles.
If you tell a Democrat they're the same as Hitler I'm gonna guess they aren't gonna take the point seriously. Just a guess.
Disagree. Trump represents real fascism in the US, but US international policy under both parties has repeatedly supported fascism and authoritarianism abroad.
Democrats have enjoyed the aesthetics of egalitarianism domestically while contributing to the problem of authoritarianism abroad in service of their global ambitions, and that is the contradiction i'm pointing to.
Both sides are not the same, but they share important similarities that should absolutely be opposed.
See I agree with pretty much 100% of this, with Israel as exhibits 1, 2, and 3 at least and probably more
There's a lot of overlap between us, I think the primary disagreement is over efficacy of agitation (and the form of).
Tru dat
Yep. Screaming hyperbolically. Framing things childishly, in false black and white. While alienating allies is always a bad means of agitation. Who'da think it, right?
Welcome to the left 🙂
I love them tho
Can't say as I do. Though I don't hate them. They're a loud, obnoxious minority those of us on the left have been dealing with forever. Would be great if we could get some solidarity and victories. Particularly during such crucial times.
There is a wonderful quote from Sadhguru, which I think will be difficult to find so I will try to replicate it. It was something like:
Where are these perfect people? In all the time I have been working in our organization, I have not found one. People are at times rude, and emotional, and short sighted, and wrong, because they are real human people. It is allowed! They can be involved and they can do great things, but if you are waiting for your organization to be staffed entirely of people who do not do wrong things, I am sorry to tell you that you will be waiting forever, my friend.
Something like that. IDK, I just sort of made it up, but that's the gist.
You can't be in the left and support the status quo, especially if the status quo is leading to a genocide. Pro-genocide solidarity isn't acceptable. Sitting there and accepting it isn't acceptable.
Who's supporting it? It isn't me. I'm absolutely ready and constantly pushing for things to change. However I have yet to see anyone especially concerning this topic actually suggest anything that will help. It's just a bunch of shit talking arm chair quarterbacks with no solutions.
Go ahead though. You seem like you've got this all figured out. Tell us all your simple easy solution. And explain why it will have the impact you think it will. Explain to us why it is worth demotivating votes for the only non-fascist really running. And what your contingency is should the actual full-on fascist and his party regain office. This should be a cake walk for you. After all it's not like Generations around the world including Palestinians and Israeli have managed to not find a solution after all this time.
People are doing it following the same models as earlier movements, like apartheid in South Africa. Protests at the universities demanding divestment, the BDS movement, pressuring with lost votes and the "no preference" vote, educating the public about the wrongs of settler colonialism, apartheid, and genocide in general and Israel history more specifically, reporters in Israel are doing their part (not the US propaganda ones), World Food Kitchen workers and other aid workers risking their lives being martyred, the and people pressuring to withhold their vote without a change in policy, too. He can easily recoup these votes by not aligning with Israel, so strategically its making the moral option the politically best option.
People have grandparents who can see the homes they had that Israel stole. It's not like the conflict has been around that long. There's no solution because Israel doesn't want a solution, they want all the land. They can sustain this uncompromising attitude because they have the support of other imperial powers like the US. Without its help and veto in the UN, Israel would be screwed. It's not as complicated as the conflict seems, it's part of Israel propaganda to make it seem more complicated than it is, to pretend it stretches back millions of years and not just to the 70's or the 40's.