How tankies and MAGAts view the Ukraine war
How tankies and MAGAts view the Ukraine war
I hate how “anti-war” has been hijacked by these people to mean, let imperialist countries invade whoever they want with no consequences. (in the case of tankies, any imperialist country that isn’t in NATO).
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US and Ukraine puppet rulers 100% instigated the war, and are the one who want it to continue. It is categorically false that Russia is interested in ruling all of Ukraine. Tolerating or believing such BS ensures your own oppression. Every US war is tolerated because you are brainwashed into stories of their leader deserving US aggression. War/sanctions is not for your benefit. Pressing for nuclear war with your absurd lies and tolerance for demonic diminishment of world is bad for you too.
There seems to be a "wokeness" over propaganda for Israel genocide, Syria insurection, and every single other war and coup the US is involved in, and the corporatist oligarchist propaganda subjugating you, and meant to subjugate you. When you humanize such disgusting lying propaganda as Russia is the one who is the aggressor in Ukraine, your idiocy fully guarantees your oppression, and you get these disappointing expectations that NYT can be "left wing" while neocon/Israel first oligarchist liars instead.
What an insane rambling of lies you've put together there.
You have apparently never lived under Soviet occupation and I strongly suggest you read up on it before you even try to spew such garbage again.
The fuck are you on about? Yanukovych, a known Russian puppet, being deposed means that US and Ukraine instigated the war?
Most of these "woke" people are also against the genocide of Palestinians, but go on I suppose.
Yanukovych was not a Russian puppet. IMF scuttled EU deal that he worked to sign. Unrealistic/electoral suicide conditions were placed on IMF loan. He wisely chose a Russian loan instead with no conditions. Black flag (US/Nazi) attack on protesters blamed on Yanukovych was the coup. CIA/State handpicked replacements for government, nazi massacre in Odessa, and apartheid ethnostate laws, led to liberation of Crimea. Russia's peaceful Minsk process to provide autonomy to Donbas was used as a delay tactic by Empire to arm Ukrainians, but implicit in their participation was acknowledging Ukraine's nazi problem, and nazi shelling of Donbas. Zelensky admitted his electoral campaign to implement Minsk and denazify Ukraine was a lie. Russian patience telling Ukraine it was time to end the BS with border troop amassments was met with increased massacres of Donbas civilians.
1 month after special operation started, Ukraine had agreed to Russia's peace terms. US/UK bribed Zelensky into suiciding to the last Ukrainian instead. Blinken/US admitted it is a "strategic imperative to diminish Russia" which cannot be a view simulataneously held without provoking/perpetuating the war that is sold as a jobs program for weapons workers, and "future American control" (Blackrock is American and freely gives all its profits to all Americans) of Ukraine's resources.
When pathethic evil lies that the 2014 Ukraine coup had any "Ukrainians love" component to it is repeated, you implicitly support every other lie of the US empire. Yeltsin was awesome liberator, and Putin terrible and corrupt is simply brainwashing based on each leader's level of US empire puppetry. The only puppets in the world are those loyal to CIA. The rest are doing their best to survive through alliances/trade not subjugated to US subjugation.
How do you even pretend to know what you're talking about when so many of these lies are so damn obvious?
Can I have some of what you're having?
As long as you can use google translate for the talking points, I imagine you could do it too.
ChatGPT might even be the better option here. People give it a lot of flak, but it understands context better than Google Translate.
Most of these “woke” people are also against the genocide of Palestinians, but go on I suppose.
Unfortunately, not sure about that,
How many people want Gaza, and Palestine to do the peace, without even talking about a two states solutions..
I often see, "we want the peace" but, that just mean, israel, you should calm on terror. Nothin more.
Its really like this meme, but for Palestine,I'm woke,
The democratic one-state solution would make whatever that state would be named (Israel/Palestine/Whatever) majority-Arab and majority-Muslim. That is why people should rationally be for it (because it's an apartheid state otherwise) and should understand that it is the only roadmap to peace between Israelis and Palestinians that does not involve one group wiping out the other.
I agree, that why i said "without even",
Because actually, that's even not a state. On the status etc ok, but for real, they have no independance, to say outloud their conditions. They depends of others arabs states.But for the one state, without Israel being a Jew nation, national socialism for zionist and without a constitution..., there is a long road, and this road have to start somewhere. Recognizing the legitimacy of the palestinians as people, is maybe a start.
Putin said in a speech in Feb 2022 that the idea of Ukraine as an independent nation is a fiction and blames Lenin for its existence. He has always believed the entire area belongs to Russia as he said it himself.
Irrelevant context of insulting Ukraine. All that matters is conditions for ending/avoiding war. Not history that in restrospect proves Ukrainians to be assholes.
Peace-loving Russia could easily end this War of Ukrainian Aggression by no longer having its military inside Ukrainian borders. For some reason, they just love peace too hard to stop shooting.
Is true, i read that on flathearth.net
US and Ukraine puppet rulers 100% instigated the war
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US and Ukraine puppet rulers 100% instigated the war, and are the one who want it to continue.
So you're saying Russia doesn't want the war to continue? So why are they fighting in Ukraine then? What are their actual goals and when will the invasion stop?
It is categorically false that Russia is interested in ruling all of Ukraine.
What evidence makes you so sure, and how do you explain the fact that Russia tried to invade Kyiv? Or do you disagree that Russia tried to invade Kyiv?
So you’re saying Russia doesn’t want the war to continue? So why are they fighting in Ukraine then? What are their actual goals and when will the invasion stop?
When Ukraine agrees to stay neutral and not join NATO. That simple. Same as prior to war, or 1 month after war. They would idealy denazify, or at least eliminate persecutory anti-Russian laws, or if they don't allow referendums for anti-nazi regions to join Russia.
What evidence makes you so sure, and how do you explain the fact that Russia tried to invade Kyiv? Or do you disagree that Russia tried to invade Kyiv?
The siege of Kyiv did motivate Ukrainian peace talks. Was likely a mistake to withdraw in good faith based on agreement in talks.
What's the principle behind Russia being allowed to prevent Ukraine or another country from entering alliances? Why doesn't this same principle apply to the Baltic states? And if Russia were to successfuly capture all of Ukraine, would it then have a right to demand similar neutrality from Moldova, Romania, and other states it would then borders? And does the same principle apply the other way - i.e. would it have been just for NATO to say Belarus can't ally with Russia when Lukashenko took over and invaded them?
The US just had an election where the most pro Israel candidate was unanimously approved by entire political establishment. CIA owns every candidate in every foreign democracy, and for some reason needs NGOs in Georgia too. Existential questions about "sovereignty" have to be considered within context of evil and democracy itself, the best vector for pure evil and corruption. "Foreign influence" democracy talking points include allowing all US/Israel foreign influence and blocking all other. Romania SC corruption recently is extreme intervention to ensure NATO slavery.
What’s the principle behind Russia being allowed to prevent Ukraine or another country from entering alliances?
A different way to word this is why should Ukrainians be FORCED to suicide themselves and their property/prosperity to serve US ambitions of diminishment of Russia? The unliberated portions have lost the right to elections, and Zelensky's platform was the exact opposite of war with Russia. Russia led the Minsk peace process to provide autonomy to Ukraine's nazi persecuted eastern provinces. West's hypocritical participation to delay in order to arm the nazis, was still acknowledging Ukraine's nazi problem. Time to give nazis stronger ruler over Ukraine is your "what principle/right of interference is there".
Ukraine and Canada should be free to diversify their trade. It is in their interests to be friendly with large trading partner. Russia should be allowed to build nordstream expansion when Ukraine chose extortionist fees for the pipelines in their country. US policy on nordstream has been a specfic war on Europe, extortionist profits to fund US weapon sales.
When you invoke the "axiom" of sovereignty to justify extreme evil and manipulated destruction of the sovereign, nuclear strikes on the root of the evil get justified by resistance to evil, whether or not you classify it as more evil, because you're just asserting the right to fabricate war, and there is no principle that says you are right to win such a war.
And if Russia were to successfuly capture all of Ukraine, would it then have a right to demand similar neutrality from Moldova, Romania, and other states it would then borders?
NATO needs to be disbanded, and democracy restored to its members. If current corrupt subjugation persists, and Europe devoted to suicide for US empire power maximization, then certainly defense against NATO will depend on power balance to defend against NATO. US, adhering to its unprincipled invocation of evil pretending to be principle, has no moral issue in supporting Israel taking territory on "buffer zone pretext" followed by Israel 3 days later announcing that "this is great land to expand settlements in", while bombing Southern Syria independents it pretends is ISIS, while arming/bribing actual ISIS in cooperation with Turkey support for same groups.
If principle mattered, secession of people who don't like their rulers would be promoted. That they need protection from an ally by joining a different empire is unfortunate, but realist.
The crackheads elsewhere in this thread shout demonism of "Remember the history of soviet union" to justify evil today. It's an unprincipled world.
Weird. Even the Libertarian CATO institute agrees with you:
The U.S. and NATO Helped Trigger the Ukraine War. It’s Not ‘Siding With Putin’ to Admit It
Ah yes, ancap libertarians. Lemmy users are famously fans of them and their philosophy.
Nazi apologist 🥳
Ad hominem’s, sad 😔 I’m more concerned with historical facts:
The Eurasian Chessboard: Brzezinski Mapped Out “The Battle for Ukraine” in 1997
It’s all about maintaining the US position as the world’s sole superpower
I wouldn't say "Nazi apologist" is an ad hominem... It seems directly related to the discussion at hand.
I wasn’t aware Ukraine or Russia were National Socialists. Reducto ad Hitlerum.
Is there a "trying to fit everything you don't like into a fallacy in order to dismiss it outright" fallacy?
There is the "fallacy fallacy," but that's slightly different I believe (though you're also doing that one).
But I'll indulge: You know nobody was referring specifically to the National Socialist party of 1930s Germany. Don't be obtuse.
If you try to infer that the argument of your opponent can be dismissed because of their character, then it is a clear argumentum ad hominem
That's not what's being inferred.
Then explain what is being inferred.
Since you seem to be a little thick: you're being called a Nazi apologist because you're effectively providing excuses for why Russia's fascist dictator was right to invade Ukraine, or at the very least isn't to blame. It's a horseshit narrative because Putin alone is in charge of his army and Ukraine has not done anything a sovereign nation shouldn't be allowed to do.
It's a direct attack on your position, which appears to apologize for a fascist dictator invading a sovereign nation. It's neatly wrapped in the form of an insult, but that doesn't make it an ad hominem by and of itself. For that to be the case, he'd have to call you a Nazi and not bother addressing what you said. But he directly addressed it, by stating that he believes your argument is apologizing for a fascist dictator. Hence it attacks your position, hence it's not an ad hominem.